SuicideTalk.com

Heya there folks,

I'd like to hear any ideas or critique concerning our community website at http://SuicideTalk.com

Currently we have following hacks:

Flash games (ProArcade), Photo Gallery (Coppermine), RSS Feeds (Articlebot), USENET Feeds (NNTP Bot) and IRC Webchat interface (vBXirc)

The place is intended to be a hangout for anyone feeling depressed/sad and possibly suicidal, to look out for relief and share their experiences which I have personally seen a best way to recover from bad moods...

(Note: it is always adviceable to seek a professional help in case of severe or continous depression)

Cheers,
woz

Interesting topic, we just had a few threads about suicide too. I think it's a great cause and wish you all the best.

Interesting topic, we just had a few threads about suicide too. I think it's a great cause and wish you all the best.

Thank you, Rex :)

You yourself have great forums there, I'll move to your topic to discuss about them! :D

Hey Woz

Welcome to VBW. I must say you present a first class and respectful image to a difficult and serious subject matter.

Kudos to you sir... well done... I wish you the best of luck with this.

Hey Woz

Welcome to VBW. I must say you present a first class and respectful image to a difficult and serious subject matter.

Kudos to you sir... well done... I wish you the best of luck with this.

Thanks for your words too, tMM! :)

I'm running my board as a little contribution to everyone who helped me in my past life ;)

And luckily I'm not alone now either, I have to credit my fantastic background forces for giving me guidance in my chosen path :)

(Especially Rosa <3, and ege, chiugate & rest of #Suicide @ IRCnet crew, to name a few) :D

Maybe Minstrial can chime in here - but I would think you might want to be a little cautious with this topic in that if someone gets bad advice, and then does the deed, you might be liable.

Maybe Minstrial can chime in here - but I would think you might want to be a little cautious with this topic in that if someone gets bad advice, and then does the deed, you might be liable.

Hmm, good point there, Joeychgo!

But let me have just some counter-arguments also:

1. Legal disclamers that state the board staff is not responsible for the content

2. If someone wants to commit suicide, he can get the principles from anywhere in Internet, just using Google, or browsing Wikipedia, or dmoz.org/Health/Mental_Health/Suicide

3. I live in Finland, we have quite liberate laws and no hefty fines to pay, and if still someone manages to get me sued, I have court insurance already :)

Cheers,
woz

Seems to me the question is only partly a legal one -- it's also a moral-ethical one.

Do you have anyone on your forum who is trained in psychology-psychiatry and who has experience with suicide risk prediction and risk minimization?

If not, I would suggest, without looking at your site, that however well-intentioned you are, you may do as much damage as good. It is not enough to be well-intentioned: You also have to know what you are doing. And the problem is that someone going to a website or forum offering advice on suicidal ideation might well expect that what they will find is an expert. Unless you are one or have ready access to one, however good and noble your intentions, you may do some serious damage.

From a design standpoint it looks like a good page. However I would change the buttons around since you have the defaults being used, and the overall design doesn't fit with the default buttons. I would design them to be a bit more square and inline with the overall theme of the site.

From a content standpoint, good luck. It's a difficult topic to deal with.

I applaud the concept -

Seems to me the question is only partly a legal one -- it's also a moral-ethical one.

Do you have anyone on your forum who is trained in psychology-psychiatry and who has experience with suicide risk prediction and risk minimization?

If not, I would suggest, without looking at your site, that however well-intentioned you are, you may do as much damage as good. It is not enough to be well-intentioned: You also have to know what you are doing. And the problem is that someone going to a website or forum offering advice on suicidal ideation might well expect that what they will find is an expert. Unless you are one or have ready access to one, however good and noble your intentions, you may do some serious damage.

You have many good points there, minstrel!

I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of "Peer support", I'm not sure if that's correct written form in english, but anyhow it means that people who have similar problems (like depression, self-injury or suicidal thoughts) share their worries with eachothers, and new people who are desperate and searching for help to their troubles can relate to those others and see how they have solved their problems.

Like I said in my first post, my board is contribution to the society. I was feeling very bad in past, and found help to my issues thru "Peer support", and online community. That was 10 years ago. Now I want to pay my debts this way, and hope that it may help someone. Many people in my board are the ones who I dealt personally earlier so I know I can trust them.

What comes to the question, if my board can do severe harm:

People die in car accidents, or actually some people make suicide by gasing out their lives by running a hose from car exhaust pipes to inside the car cabin, and they fall asleep as carbon monoxide starts to affect.

Now, car makers don't feel any guild by making cars, or exhaust pipe manufacturers making exhaust pipes, or hosemakers making hoses.

Or I typing this method here, since it is common knowledge, shown on TV, written to a book by John Grisham, and you can find it by typing "painless suicide methotds" in practically any search engine. Who wants to take their life away, will find their way. I don't believe in censorship myself. I think being silent and handling suicide issues as "taboo" makes things much worse!

Of course this thing can be argued and fought to no end, and I hope this thread won't go too much to that, if someone doesn't like my board, they don't have to go there :(

Just my .02 cents,
woz

From a design standpoint it looks like a good page. However I would change the buttons around since you have the defaults being used, and the overall design doesn't fit with the default buttons. I would design them to be a bit more square and inline with the overall theme of the site.

From a content standpoint, good luck. It's a difficult topic to deal with.

Thanks for your feedback, Infinite! :D

I'm considering to Photoshop a new button set, I'll probably do it next time I have enough free time to do it in one rush. I hate leaving things half-way :rolleyes:

Though, if someone has skills to make good solution in no time, I could pay a bit for efforts :)

Hi Woz

You make some excellent points in return regarding Minstrels post above - and in the main, my personal opinion still remains one of tending to think yours is a site that is indeed very well intentioned, and will handle some difficult content very well too.

However, Minstrel speaks with much clarity and does indeed make several very serious and valid points. Also: your comments regarding Car, Hose Reel and Exhaust manufacturers can be somewhat negated quite simply. I will comment on both the points I make.

1st : I think it would be extremely beneficial to you and your site if you were able to find someone with relevant qualifications and experience to act as maybe a Content Advisor or Mentor for example. Looking at the (currently unavailable) links in his sig, maybe Minstrel knows someone who might be able to help. I certainly believe you should try to find someone to act in this capacity as there is undoubtedly an expecation on the part of someone contemplating suicide - that they would find information and advice on your site. You therefore have a responsibility (as indeed do all forum owners) to your membership... and from my perspective - is a responsibility that should be taken very seriously - as I am certain you do.

2nd: Manufacturers of Cars, Exhaust systems or Hose Reels don't offer advice on using their promotional material or products for people who are possibly contemplating suicide.

I sincerely wish you the very best in your site, and I truely hope it works for you and anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves in this awful situation. I can tell from reading what you have written that you do indeed listen to other peoples opinions, and I am sure you will take the advice and act on it. Good luck.

John

Woz, I am indeed familiar with support groups and the concept of peer support. My comments were not intended to devalue peer support at all, or indeed the concept behind your forum. Indeed, my Psychlinks Forum is in large part based on a similar concept.

However, I am a psychologist by profession and I have two moderators who are in the mental health profession, in addition to the peer support members. Together with my moderators, I monitor all posts generally and certain threads, like the ones devoted to suicide and self-injury, very closely. One thing I prohibit on my board is any discussion of methods of suicide. Another is graphic descriptions of suicide attempts or self-injurious behaviors. This isn't about censorship per se -- it's about trying to ensure as much as possible that something posted doesn't trigger another member or even an anonymous visitor.

I am really suggesting that you think very seriously about recruiting some professional advisors for your forum.

Hi Woz

You make some excellent points in return regarding Minstrels post above - and in the main, my personal opinion still remains one of tending to think yours is a site that is indeed very well intentioned, and will handle some difficult content very well too.

However, Minstrel speaks with much clarity and does indeed make several very serious and valid points. Also: your comments regarding Car, Hose Reel and Exhaust manufacturers can be somewhat negated quite simply. I will comment on both the points I make.

1st : I think it would be extremely beneficial to you and your site if you were able to find someone with relevant qualifications and experience to act as maybe a Content Advisor or Mentor for example. Looking at the (currently unavailable) links in his sig, maybe Minstrel knows someone who might be able to help. I certainly believe you should try to find someone to act in this capacity as there is undoubtedly an expecation on the part of someone contemplating suicide - that they would find information and advice on your site. You therefore have a responsibility (as indeed do all forum owners) to your membership... and from my perspective - is a responsibility that should be taken very seriously - as I am certain you do.

2nd: Manufacturers of Cars, Exhaust systems or Hose Reels don't offer advice on using their promotional material or products for people who are possibly contemplating suicide.

I sincerely wish you the very best in your site, and I truely hope it works for you and anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves in this awful situation. I can tell from reading what you have written that you do indeed listen to other peoples opinions, and I am sure you will take the advice and act on it. Good luck.

John

Good posting.. I will answer to this below as I answer to minstrel. Thank you!

Woz, I am indeed familiar with support groups and the concept of peer support. My comments were not intended to devalue peer support at all, or indeed the concept behind your forum. Indeed, my Psychlinks Forum is in large part based on a similar concept.

However, I am a psychologist by profession and I have two moderators who are in the mental health profession, in addition to the peer support members. Together with my moderators, I monitor all posts generally and certain threads, like the ones devoted to suicide and self-injury, very closely. One thing I prohibit on my board is any discussion of methods of suicide. Another is graphic descriptions of suicide attempts or self-injurious behaviors. This isn't about censorship per se -- it's about trying to ensure as much as possible that something posted doesn't trigger another member or even an anonymous visitor.

I am really suggesting that you think very seriously about recruiting some professional advisors for your forum.

Thank you for your kind advicing!

I didn't first off notice this is your field of expertize, I have now visited PsychLinks and it seems to be very professional site. I appreciate everyone who is working on the psychological issues, since society in general doesn't seem to value it much, and I consider that minorizing as a great failure from them. My opinion is that stronger should always help the weaker, especially when talking about mental health.

I'm doing volunteer work, as everyone else in my forum. Leading rule is that everyone coming to board should first ASAP contact healthcare professionals, and secondly hang around in the forums. Nothing can beat IRL personal consultation, ever.

However, like tMM and you said, to have healthcare professionals already on board would help alot, and therefore I humbly welcome and invite anyone in such position to join our crew to make the board better. Unfortunately, like I stated above, we're volunteers and I cannot pay for the work.

In meanwhile, I agree I have to work for better forum rules, since I got few ideas from your messages.

Thanks again to everyone here, it's really great and outstanding situation to have this kind of quality feedback almost instantly! :)

I can see both sides of the story but I'm not sure how one can get in trouble for merely discussing the topic. I mean you can come ask my legal advice about something and I give you my opinions then I don't see any recourse for my actions. It's your responsibility to find "credible" advice if you want it, not mine.

And I think restricting this type of forum would be a shame to freedom of speech here in the U.S. , of course I am a Libertarian so my views may differ from others.

Just my .02

I can see both sides of the story but I'm not sure how one can get in trouble for merely discussing the topic. I mean you can come ask my legal advice about something and I give you my opinions then I don't see any recourse for my actions. It's your responsibility to find "credible" advice if you want it, not mine.

And I think restricting this type of forum would be a shame to freedom of speech here in the U.S.
1. We are not talking about webmasters looking for SEOI information here. We are talking about people who are vulnerable, desperate, and often very frightened, and who, happening upon a site like this, might assume some expertise that might not be there.

2. I am not talking about legal liability -- I'm talking about moral-ethical responsibility.

3. I'm not suggesting banning this site or restricting free speech. I'm suggesting caution and sensitivity.

1. We are not talking about webmasters looking for SEOI information here. We are talking about people who are vulnerable, desperate, and often very frightened, and who, happening upon a site like this, might assume some expertise that might not be there.

2. I am not talking about legal liability -- I'm talking about moral-ethical responsibility.

3. I'm not suggesting banning this site or restricting free speech. I'm suggesting caution and sensitivity.

Well the moral-ethical responsibility lies in the eye of the beholder of your own moral-ethical guide, if the person even has one.

I understand it's a sensitive subject but I also believe adults can make their own decisions. Thats just my opinion. Not everybodys.

1. We are not talking about webmasters looking for SEOI information here. We are talking about people who are vulnerable, desperate, and often very frightened, and who, happening upon a site like this, might assume some expertise that might not be there.

2. I am not talking about legal liability -- I'm talking about moral-ethical responsibility.

3. I'm not suggesting banning this site or restricting free speech. I'm suggesting caution and sensitivity.

We might not be paid professionals, but free volunteers, who are trying to do their best efforts to provide a discussion medium for people interested in the topic. There's bunch of similar peer support forums in Finnish language also, like http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/ymmartavatukiry/index.html (they are not professionals either, but are recognized for their volunteer work by Finnish government)

I don't know if anyone has ever questioned moral-ethical responsibility for existance of alt.suicide.holiday -Usenet newsgroup, we are pretty much similar but in WWW, since not everyone wants/knows howto use Usenet, and alot more controlled - we can show our Statement to contact healthcare professionals in a banner to every new member, for example. There's no moderation either in A.S.H, and I take that more dangerous than running our board, we have at least moderation, be it unprofessional or not.

I have noted your remarks for caution and sensitivity and I'm making a memo for changes in forum rules and structure, I'll do the things in next few days, but probably tomorrow.

I take all advices seriously, so if anyone has anything to add/change in forum/rules/etc, just tell me :)

That's the reason in first place why I came to VBW and opened this thread :)

Cheers,
woz

WOZ I made a discussion topic on my site about your site. Should bring you some traffic and hopefully bring to light the subject at hand? Your more than welcome to engage in the discussion:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=81711#post81711

Just realize WOZ - I dont think anyone is condemning your concept - just offering advice on how you can do the best job for your members

WOZ I made a discussion topic on my site about your site. Should bring you some traffic and hopefully bring to light the subject at hand? Your more than welcome to engage in the discussion:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=81711#post81711

Okay, I'm signing up now! Thank you, Rex :)

Cheers,
woz

Just realize WOZ - I dont think anyone is condemning your concept - just offering advice on how you can do the best job for your members

Sorry, if anyone got feeling that I condemn someone of condemning my concept - that is not the case!

I'm very willing to hear more advices, ideas, critics and all, I asked that in my first post, didn't I? :)

All my other posts in this thread are just my responses to other peoples replys, where they make their point of view clear, and I make mine.

I thank Mr Baxter (minstrel) sincerely for his words, he made me to plan some serious changes to forum rules, for example.

Peace and out,
woz :)

Hey Rex,

I think that was a fantastic thing for you to do re opening up a topic on your forums to discuss this delicate subject. An excellent idea!! - and one that I might very well do on my forums too - so long as (1) Woz doesn't mind and (2) you or Joey don't mind either.

I consider it beneficial for Woz to get as many opinions from as diverse an audience as possible.

Minstrel: Great advice you give there sir... kudos to you, you deserve recognition.

Hey Rex,

I think that was a fantastic thing for you to do re opening up a topic on your forums to discuss this delicate subject. An excellent idea!! - and one that I might very well do on my forums too - so long as (1) Woz doesn't mind and (2) you or Joey don't mind either.

I consider it beneficial for Woz to get as many opinions from as diverse an audience as possible.

Minstrel: Great advice you give there sir... kudos to you, you deserve recognition.

Why not, just give it a shot! :)

Post the link to your thread here or PM me, and I'll join the discussion on your board :)

Take care all,
-woz-

Its all about helping each other.

Thanks for your feedback, Infinite! :D

I'm considering to Photoshop a new button set, I'll probably do it next time I have enough free time to do it in one rush. I hate leaving things half-way :rolleyes:

Though, if someone has skills to make good solution in no time, I could pay a bit for efforts :)


I have a button set on my forums that might go good with your colors... ;)

http://www.gmvsford.com/forums/images/buttons/reply.gif

Its all about helping each other.

Exactly! You have already helped me a few times... :p

Exactly! You have already helped me a few times... :p

I'll send you a bill :)

wow, dude, I just read a lil bit thru the posts on that forum. I believe that being able to talk about it onn a forum can actually help people finding ohers with similar problems and being able to lift each others up.

Great cause!

Absolutely - I think the idea is great - just have to be a little careful is all.

man, I'd be afraid to touch a subject like that without having any kind of expertice