Does *Every* Thread Deserve to Live Forever?

Okay, I'm an old curmudgeon--I admit it.

However, there are some practices that seem common among those who operate php-based sites that I don't understand. They are obviously very entrenched in the culture, since the software assumes that one will work in that manner.

One of these is keeping every thread ever generated open on the forum. I just don't see why most threads deserve to live that long. There's even a derogatory term for those who are fooloish-enough to read and respond to these old, still active threads: Grave Diggers.

To me, it seems like threads that have been idle for some time--three weeks?--need to go somewhere. The good ones, into a searchable (but inactive) archive; the rest into the great bit bucket in the sky--who really needs to reference a 3-year-old discussion of the participant's favorite breakfast.

I have asked this question other places, and mostly people respond "We never delete anything." I knew that, its why I asked the question. What I'd like to find out is why you've chosen that policy. What say you all?

--don

For me, its simple.

Every post is something google (hopefully) has spidered, and is in the search engine rankings somewhere....And might be found by a prospective member.

Every post is something google (hopefully) has spidered, and is in the search engine rankings somewhere....And might be found by a prospective member.

I have heard several people say that the majority of their search engine referrals come in through archive pages (because of the simpler coding?). Doesn't that argue for archiving old discussions, rather than leaving them active?

--don

Joey is right, even an obscure keyword search can bring up some dumb threads, but sometimes those dumb threads got a hell of a lot of views while they were being authored and can bring in a lot of new members from the SERP's, even if the subject of the off topic thread is not the focus of the forum.

Sometimes this can help bring in new members that you would not ever have had join otherwise.

Most of the time it is a "NEW MEMBER" that brings those old threads back to life and you have to put up with odd conduct from new members that in many cases you would not with a long term member.

One thing I do hate is when old members attack a new member for doing something wrong and scare them away.

I can understand being mad at a new person for what they may have done, but they should never be jumped on by the old members, that is the job of the moderators to PM the new member and get them on the right track.

Joey is right, even an obscure keyword search can bring up some dumb threads, but sometimes those dumb threads got a hell of a lot of views while they were being authored and can bring in a lot of new members from the SERP's, even if the subject of the off topic thread is not the focus of the forum.

Sometimes this can help bring in new members that you would not ever have had join otherwise.

Most of the time it is a "NEW MEMBER" that brings those old threads back to life and you have to put up with odd conduct from new members that in many cases you would not with a long term member.

Okay, so I know I'm a PITA...

Why does that help the forum? If I have a fly-fishing forum, and I happen to have one two-year-old discussion on quilts in my off-topic section, and now somebody finds that on google and comes looking for quilt discussions and joins my forum and revives the old thread. I don't want to become a quilting forum. They don't want to be fly fishermen. Why is that good for the forum?

--don

Because that member might also like fly fishing in addition to the dumb subject he came in on.

When you were a kid and picked up a magazine for the first time you may have not been interested in the subject matter, but as you read the magazine you found that you became interested in the subject matter and became passionate about it.

The same thing is possible with new members, they may not know anything about the subject matter of your forum, but may become interested in it as they explore your forum.

No one is telling you how to run your forum, if you want to delete threads, do so for the editorial integrity of your forum if you want to keep it's focus.

But other forum operators have their reasons to keep goofy threads around.

Joey has threads here that have nothing to do with running a VBforum, but someone might come in off of that thread one day and become the next big forum owner because he stumbled upon this forum by mistake.

How did Thomas Edison discover electric? I think it was by flying a kite....

But other forum operators have their reasons to keep goofy threads around.

And it that reasoning that I was hoping to explore. If I question your reasoning, it is not the same as saying you are wrong, it is saying that I don't understand your reasoning.

It is an excellent thread subject especially for this forum, I am sure that Joey is thankful that you started it.

I would not blame you for deleting certain threads if it ruins the editorial integrity of the forum you operate.

I think what Joey and others are saying is that it can cost a forum owner many referrals if they WAIT two or three weeks and then delete the thread from the database.

I have heard forum owners complain to themselves for doing this as referrals come in and there is no page there anymore.

Your best bet is to delete the thread when it is first posted and warn the member kindly to stick to the subjects the forum covers if you want to maintain focus on your content.

Use custom 404 pages and such so that when they go to a dead thread, they get a real html page with real info that can bring them into the site.

I have heard several people say that the majority of their search engine referrals come in through archive pages (because of the simpler coding?). Doesn't that argue for archiving old discussions, rather than leaving them active?

--don


VBulletin sends posts to the archive immediately. There is no wait time. The archive is essentially a mirror of your forum.

The archive is essentially a mirror of your forum.

Does that mean a thread can't exist in the archives without existing in the forums? Hmmm.. The vB manual sucks about some stuff. I remember Floris saying that he was moving stuff to the archives around the first of the year--wonder what he meant.

--don

I would not blame you for deleting certain threads if it ruins the editorial integrity of the forum you operate.Well, that wasn't exactly my worry. In a thread in another community(TAZ), there is a discussion of why do the OT sections always seem to get so big. I think its important for a community to have an off-topic area. I just want to corral it.

I have heard forum owners complain to themselves for doing this as referrals come in and there is no page there anymore.Okay, I now see an essential concern in deleting. If the thread is listed in a search engine, and I delete it, the person following the link is disappointed by the site. Not a good thing.

Is it possible (should be) to mark the threads in a particular section as "noindex" using template conditionals?

--don

Use custom 404 pages

I've never done those. Is it one custom page, or can you have a series of them that display based on other criteria?

Can one put javascript on them that would parse the url that generated the error and do different things--like feed the parameters to search.php?


--don

Sounds like you better just create an off topic section and leave your forum alone.

Because you are heading in a direction that is just going to create headaches for yourself.

The best policy is to lock a thread that you do not want to continue and kindly warn the member not to go off track so much.

Now you see why forum owners just try to manage things instead of censoring or deleting threads.

Don't hurt yourself because the world will do a good enough job at that.

PS: The bottom line is that folks want to chat about nonsense, that is why off topic threads get so many views and posts, even webmasters like to fool around and flirt with the girls, on Digital Point those are some of the biggest threads, the silly one's.

For example look at this one here, it is off the wall, we are even making fun of our faithful leader in it here on VBW.

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27

Would you let this happen on your forum to keep your members entertained or would you get mad about it???

The bottom line is that folks want to chat about nonsense...Would you let this happen on your forum to keep your members entertained or would you get mad about it???

H*ll, I'd probably start one like that <G>.

Okay, For the last 16 years, I've been managing communities in an environment where messages disappeared automatically. In fact, the major worry was capturing and archiving the good stuff before it hit the bit bucket. I'm trying to wrap my mind around this strange new environment. Doing nothing *feels* wrong--doesn't mean it is wrong.

--don

See the thread linked below and keep it handy and make your moderators read it, it will help you understand how not to ruin your own forum.

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122

NO JOKE, over moderation can kill a forum and poor administration in making too many rules, in addition to not enforcing the ones you have equally on ALL members.

Showing favoritism to certain members is NOT good for the growth of any forum and if the old timers don't understand this (not being kind to new members) then they have some problems also.

People are not stupid and can recognize these things quickly.

Here is this thread in the archive:

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-234.html

and here is this thread in the archive hack

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/vbulletinforumhistory/topic.php/234-1.html

Geez this thread is old :D

Anyway, the issue I have with old threads is that they're revived by members to demean other members they have personal issues with. They're basically used for feuds, flame wars, things that aren't good for your community. If someone was wrong about something 8 months ago, is it really necessary to dredge it up to say "I told you so?". You really don't want to delete them arbitrarily based on age, because you're also going to be removing a lot of good content. We autoclose inactive threads using a hack similar to this one:
Block replies to old threads and prompt for new thread instead (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70140) The user gets a message that the thread is outdated, and to start a new thread, or ask a moderator to reopen it.