anthony parsons 03-24-2005, 06:34 PM I'm just curious now as to the extent of qualifications and expertise here, as I've read three posts here, and each one so far revolved around, or somehow got PageRank into the discussion?
People here do understand how PageRank works, don't they? You do realise that PageRank and rankings have nothing to do with one another? You do realise that a PR8 backlink is weighted less than a PR1 relevant backlink? You understand that the higher the PageRank, does not mean the higher your overall rankings?
Please tell me you understand these concepts and that PageRank is not going to be the flavour and justification to rankings here. PageRank is so outdated now that Google have stopped primarily even using it anymore for weighting. If you think PageRank is going to get you rankings, you need to do your homework and run some testing... cause your going to be upset.
Noppid 03-24-2005, 06:42 PM I for one can't see how statements related to this from either point of view, good or bad, can be of any use either though. It's a private protected proprietatry algorithm.
I'd once like to see someone on either side of the argument produce a link to a tool or data that is duplicatable and proves the point. That has never happened ever that I know of.
That's not to say ya can't debate the merits of it, I just think it should be noted any and all arguments are pure conjecture.
In the mean time, my inexperienced advice is to not turn down any promotional relationship you can afford or nurture for free.
I think we can assert this or that works, but never why. That's the conjecture.
Joeychgo 03-24-2005, 10:42 PM I do understand that Anthoy - and agree that rankings and pagerank have little to nothing to do with one another. I have a PR 5 site that routinely outranks a PR 7 site for one of its main keywords. (thir site is more relevant IMO as well)
anthony parsons 03-25-2005, 12:35 AM Absolutely noppid. We can test and assimilate certain conditions, but never put our hand on one's heart and swear its absolute, as we don't have the ability to view the actual algorithm in full form and function, in conjunction with the other algorithms that work with the PageRank algo. One piece of the puzzle is nothing, especially when you have block rank and LSI now demonstrating more weight in all aspects, than just link popularity.
Noppid 03-25-2005, 12:56 AM It gives me a headache!
I'm willing to listen to any ideas because it's very new to me.
petertdavis 03-25-2005, 09:24 AM People here do understand how PageRank works, don't they? You do realise that PageRank and rankings have nothing to do with one another? You do realise that a PR8 backlink is weighted less than a PR1 relevant backlink? You understand that the higher the PageRank, does not mean the higher your overall rankings?
Well, actually that's false. A PR8 link in the hands of the right person can translate directly into many thousands of dollars of cash earned per year if someone knows how to use it. Doesn't really matter if the link is relevant or not.
anthony parsons 03-25-2005, 05:20 PM Please explain what part you think is false exactly Peter. All the testing myself, and many others, have done over the years, has shown less and less weight placed upon authority, being PageRank by the way of backlinks, and more weight placed on block rank and LSI. Google themselves, made public the new introduction of LSI and that it now holds the most weight for ranking purposes, as its near impossible to manipulate how one word relates to another if you don't have the algorithm or weight basis they placed upon each word to a similar word. PageRank is now nothing more than a toolbar and amateur webmaster tool to keep those amused. PageRank itself has never, EVER, had anything to do with rankings, EVER. It is only those that believe it did, thus had no real idea or concept on how the PageRank algo worked in conjunction with the main algorithms.
I think you need to explain yourself a little further.
anthony parsons 03-25-2005, 05:22 PM Did you also know, that you can simply cloak PageRank to get yourself any PageRank you want? This is the exact reason why it isn't used. Many IR scientist have actually found Google have snuck in a Block Rank algorithm and have been using it for quite some time, as the normal PR has nill effect nowadays.
Joeychgo 03-26-2005, 01:27 AM What do you mean a Block Rank algorithm ?
anthony parsons 03-26-2005, 02:00 AM What do you mean a Block Rank algorithm ?
Basically in simple terms, blockrank breaks your page up into certain blocks, ie. header, footer, navigation, ad blocks, content blocks and so forth, it then weights each block off your page differently. For example; if a page is weighted out of 10, the content area's may be given the following weights:
Header - 2
Footer - 1
Navigation - 1
Ad Blocks - 1
Sponsors - 1
Content - 4
Total = 10
Blockrank no longer looks at a page overall, it looks at minute areas within a page. This helps search engines disregard certain content that is not so much for the user, thus given little or no weight even. The header is generally quite important compared to other areas, as it is seen first, thus people aren't going to stack all their ugly sponsor links in their generally, so the content there is weighted higher, with content being the highest. Navigation, ads, sponsors and footers are generally off little use to a search engine, thus given the appropriate weight. Within those important blocks, and overall page, you then have Latent Semantic Indexing (LSI), which Google now use heavily, since February 05, also counter working in conjunction with the blockrank algo, backlink and so forth.
MSN released blockrank nearly two years ago now, though have only incorporated it within the new MSN, where Google have believed to off snuck it in without any notice. This is shown from some detailed testing certain IR scientists have performed against their algorithm. You can read about that sort of stuff at SEW forums, posted directly by the IR scientist.
minstrel 03-29-2005, 06:57 AM People here do understand how PageRank works, don't they? You do realise that PageRank and rankings have nothing to do with one another? You do realise that a PR8 backlink is weighted less than a PR1 relevant backlink? You understand that the higher the PageRank, does not mean the higher your overall rankings?
Please tell me you understand these concepts and that PageRank is not going to be the flavour and justification to rankings here. PageRank is so outdated now that Google have stopped primarily even using it anymore for weighting. If you think PageRank is going to get you rankings, you need to do your homework and run some testing... cause your going to be upset.
Please explain what part you think is false exactly Peter. All the testing myself, and many others, have done over the years, has shown less and less weight placed upon authority, being PageRank by the way of backlinks, and more weight placed on block rank and LSI. Google themselves, made public the new introduction of LSI and that it now holds the most weight for ranking purposes, as its near impossible to manipulate how one word relates to another if you don't have the algorithm or weight basis they placed upon each word to a similar word. PageRank is now nothing more than a toolbar and amateur webmaster tool to keep those amused. PageRank itself has never, EVER, had anything to do with rankings, EVER.
Wow. LOTS of misinformation and hyperbole here, Anthony.
If what you are trying to say is that PR is not the end-all and be-all of Google ranking, that's true. Google has said for a long time that PR is only one of more than 100 factors involved in ranking.
But all this stuff about Google ignoring it, PR8 links being worth less than PR1 links, etc., etc.? I'm sorry but that's just blatant nonsense. And LSI? It may be coming. It may even be here. They do have the technology. But no one but Google knows for sure if it's "in" yet. And authority being less important? I'd be interested in knowing how you came to that conclusion.
As for "All the testing myself, and many others, have done over the years", I'd also be interested in knowing who those "many others" are and what all that testing was.
If your point was to caution people not to overestimate the importance of PageRank, I would agree with you but I don't think this sort of exaggeration and misinformation helps you to make that point.
As to the place of PR and other SEO discussions in a forum about forums, don't you think that's important? If people can't easily find you, where are your members going to come from?
anthony parsons 03-30-2005, 02:12 AM Wow. LOTS of misinformation and hyperbole here, Anthony.
If what you are trying to say is that PR is not the end-all and be-all of Google ranking, that's true. Google has said for a long time that PR is only one of more than 100 factors involved in ranking.
But all this stuff about Google ignoring it, PR8 links being worth less than PR1 links, etc., etc.? I'm sorry but that's just blatant nonsense. And LSI? It may be coming. It may even be here. They do have the technology. But no one but Google knows for sure if it's "in" yet. And authority being less important? I'd be interested in knowing how you came to that conclusion.
Hi David, can you show me where a PR8 backlink, outweights a PR1 link? Being from WPW, you would well know that pagerank can simply be cloaked, and represented without actual backlinks. Pagerank may off played some role back in the hay days, but it doesn't now. Prove it does, cause I can show more it doesn't. Google have already released LSI and publicly stated it. Its no secret anymore. There is no secret about the Feb update with the LSI rollout, as they even asked for feedback.
The days of simply going to something like a news site, being a so called industry hub, and buying a link, does little to nothing anymore for a site. The mention of authority was in correlation to PageRank, and its basis and weight for authority. It physically holds nil nowadays. A PR8 site with 20 backlinks, actually doesn't have more authority than a PR4 site with 5000 backlinks. The backlinks and content determine authority, not the pagerank. That you must agree. That is what I was referring too.
As for "All the testing myself, and many others, have done over the years", I'd also be interested in knowing who those "many others" are and what all that testing was.
If your point was to caution people not to overestimate the importance of PageRank, I would agree with you but I don't think this sort of exaggeration and misinformation helps you to make that point.
As to the place of PR and other SEO discussions in a forum about forums, don't you think that's important? If people can't easily find you, where are your members going to come from?
Pagerank is no longer a deciding factor in rankings, and was only so for a short time, until used and abused like many other things. It's no different from the hype of press releases over the past 12 months, now they do little for the sheer abuse factor, towards rankings that is, not getting your point out and about. SEW have some outstanding tests made available there, from IR scientists and so forth, about the in's and out's of the algorithm shift. Nothing that you would have seen at WPW, as they don't even seem to be much off a forum nowadays. The tests are no secret, and made available at such industry hubs like SEW.
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