Is this the end of Google Pagerank as we know it

What is happening with Google Toolbar Pagerank? People are asking this everywhere.

Many pages I visit are showing gray for PR on the toolbar. I have also checked a few pagerank update tools and they are also reflecting this change, so this isnt just a toolbar failure.

No, this isnt a PR update as some believe. This is the elimination of PageRank as we know it.

Is the the end of Google Pagerank as we know it? Is Google replacing or eliminating our ability to read the value of a website (as they see it)

Google's "Trust Rank" algorithm has been around for awhile, but I dont believe fully implemented. Maybe we're seeing the change from Pagerank to TrustRank.

Aaron Wall recently write an article, TrustRank & the Company You Keep (http://www.search-marketing.info/newsletter/articles/trustrank-company.htm) - basically the Googles "Trust Rank" algorithm places a different value on each incoming and outgoing link different then Page Rank. These values could be positive or negative.

So, are we seeing the end of PageRank as we know it? It seems so. It also seems we are all may to have to change out link development strategies somewhat.

I agree our link strategies are getting much more complex lately, but Im not so sure about the PR becoming extinct.. maybe we should place bets ;)

you'll lose the bet - ive checked several sites and its not a PR update, the sites are going to 0 pr across most of the datacenters.

Let me take a look and Ill get back to you.. so your saying there will be no Page Rank displaying soon anywhere, on any website ?

Check using this: http://www.mcdar.net/KeywordTool/keywordtool.asp

Google.com doesnt even show PR for most datacenters - Yahoo.com either.

This is a major change in method.

Ok, I see all the 0/10s

and whats more - the toolbar is GRAY not white.

I don't think it's gone for good, atleast not yet.... I read everything Aaron wrote about the trust rank, and as usuall he makes excellent points and is probably right on point...

But as far as not being used anymore, I doubt it.... I bet they just are getting tired of everyone using these future pagerank checkers...

This is their new way a saying:
"hey, you see the new PR when we're ready, case closed"

Are you sure they just aint expiring the old tool bar code? Do you have the latest greatest toolbar? I can't see them putting the meter on the last release only to kill it.

yes- check sites using this tool - http://www.mcdar.net/KeywordTool/keywordtool.asp

This will show you the PR of a site across all the datacenters.

What MIGHT be happening is that Pagerank is leaving, and TRUSTRANK is coming in the same place, and to do that they have to clear all the old PR.

On the other hand, its also possible that the google engineers were bored and looking for something to do this weekend, so they shut down the PR servers as a practical joke and are reading all these threads and laughing.

Letting us watch future PR checkers is a joke.....

They are probably just elliminating that possibility.

I believe the PR will be replaced with some other measure, Page Rank will be replaced because its too important to the marketing of Google. So, something will replace it.

Google does not like to be figgured out too easily.

and they shouldnt.

Zactly. And trying to figgure them out is not the best way to seo.

You drunk or is your spelling just off today?

nope, not drunk. What do you mean? "zactly"? I thought that was a common usage for exactly.

so what do you think is going on tut?

It has been going on for a while. Google doesn't show us the backlinks that determine rankings, page rank no longer reflects rankability and everyone goes nuts with speculations. Google is working on improving the quality of search results by disabling search engine optimizers who don't follow their advice of "Build a good site and don't worry about seo". Quality will always survive. Best thing to do is not focus on seo other than imitating what the good and successful sites are doing, that would be the key.

Well, thats good in theory, but I can show you many GREAT sites that have NO off page seo and dont show in the google serps. The only reason they dont have SEO is because they dont know about it.

So, figuring out what search engines want to see is important. What I agree with you on TUT is that the FIRST step should always be building a good quality site.

According to PageRank.net, one of my sites has a PR of 67! :eek:

W00t!

Well, It may very will be, althoguh I doubt it. Its my belief that Google is replacing the PageRank System with something else. Maybe TrustRank or something like it.

Well, thats good in theory, but I can show you many GREAT sites that have NO off page seo and dont show in the google serps. The only reason they dont have SEO is because they dont know about it.

So, figuring out what search engines want to see is important. What I agree with you on TUT is that the FIRST step should always be building a good quality site.

Figuring out what search engines want to see is important - but only for the short term. Its what users want to see that is important in the long run . Search engines are getting smarter .They are getting closer to serving up what visitors want to see .Its a natural progression. In a few years of time most of the good sites will come up in SERPs and this trend will continue to grow . SEO will slowly fade into oblivion .

More like Both are important. Search engines help bring new people to your site, site design keeps them coming back.

SEO isnt fading into anywhere.

If SEO means knowing where and how to place content on your site so that visitors are attracted, or knowing how pleasing your site design looks , or knowing that you should have static links in your site - then such SEO is required. I was talking about the SEO as it is these days. Attemps to enhance a site ranking without enhancing its intrinsic value with speculative SE theories and full of self proclaimed 'SEO' gurus who try to teach people how to chase SE algos. Such 'SEO' is bound to end.

The reason they don't show is often the time factor. They have not been indexed long enough or they have been initially found thru links from questionable sources rather than important web sites.

Well, thats good in theory, but I can show you many GREAT sites that have NO off page seo and dont show in the google serps. The only reason they dont have SEO is because they dont know about it.

So, figuring out what search engines want to see is important. What I agree with you on TUT is that the FIRST step should always be building a good quality site.
That was my answer to this

If SEO means knowing where and how to place content on your site so that visitors are attracted, or knowing how pleasing your site design looks , or knowing that you should have static links in your site - then such SEO is required. I was talking about the SEO as it is these days. Attemps to enhance a site ranking without enhancing its intrinsic value with speculative SE theories and full of self proclaimed 'SEO' gurus who try to teach people how to chase SE algos. Such 'SEO' is bound to end.


Close -

You want your site designed so search engines can find their way around your site and index it easily and properly. This will help bring you visitors.

You also want this design to be pleasing and easy for the visitor so he will come back and enjoy your site.

You also want to market your site. Off Site Optimization. But this doesnt mean only tossing your links in 100 directories, it means actively getting out there and publicizing your site, getting the name and the link out there to your target audience.

Only this combo will give you success long term.

Here is one reason I believe we'll be getting Trust Rank

http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050425-131316

I say, you beut. It could only be a dream come true if it doesn't return. Back to the real value of a site then... statistics.

I say, you beut. It could only be a dream come true if it doesn't return. Back to the real value of a site then... statistics.

I believe it will return, with a new name and different criteria, but will still be the value of a website.

Its too good of a marketing tool for Google IMO.

Well, to me all the seo tactics are secondary. If you have a good site, people will link to you voluntarily.

Joey, what the toolbar shows (or used to show) isn't real PageRank anyway. Not anymore than that snapshot your girlfriend took of you on Christmas eve is really you the living, breathing, human. Toolbar PageRank is just a snapshot of what real PageRank used to be at some point in the past.

One of the biggest mistakes people make is to get so fixated on one area of seo that they overlook the simple and natural solutions. Good, clean advertising will help you promote your site and get ranked as well. Everytime the average seo figgures something out, the search engines are already working against those who will overuse tactics to benefit from it because when people get too fixated and confident in their tactics vs. building good sites, the search results will suffer and that is what search engines are trying to avoid.

Search engines are not against seo's but they have the consumer in mind first.

I agree. Good SEO is essentially the same as building a good site.

google is not eliminating pr, they are either doing a recompiling of everyone datacenter and toolbar or they have finally wised up and are removing pr from the public eye thus bringing down pagerank.net sites and others like it. those sites caused stress on their servers and i think google has had enough. only time will tell.

this is a great move by google to get rid of pagerank. can you guys see this? here are a couple of reasons:

1. they could not handle page rank calculations (remember delays? ...) web is just to dynamic to promote any rank (be it google's rank) for each page on the net. so why bothering using lots of resources on calculating page rank while more power and resources would be neeed when they can concentrate solely on results quality which is only partially related to what used to be page rank

2. they finally woke up and realized that links only are worthless for relevant rankings and getting worthles even more with the seo engineering that can afford to grow as many links and so called "semantical linking". they are moving more towards semantical "ranking" now, this guy was saying they do lot of research in this, and we will probably see changes pretty soon in rankings

I say a movie about google where a guy from google was telling that they always focus on future, on new technologies. so while competition tryes to get them from behind using same approach they do, they are already one step forward.

this drop of page rank, just proves to me that he was correct

I don't see how anyone pretending to be a SEO professional can make a statement one way or another about whether Google is getting rid of PageRank or not. Until we hear directly from Google what's up, all of this speculation is rather meaningless.

This is one of those things that is simple guesswork at this point, and maybe a little wishful thinking.

PR is back it would seem.

It's back baby!

Visible Pagerank is Back on the toolbar! :)

I would change the thread title to "IS this the end of Pagerank as we know it?" ;)

What is happening with Google Toolbar Pagerank? People are asking this everywhere.

Many pages I visit are showing gray for PR on the toolbar. I have also checked a few pagerank update tools and they are also reflecting this change, so this isnt just a toolbar failure.

No, this isnt a PR update as some believe. This is the elimination of PageRank as we know it.

Is the the end of Google Pagerank as we know it? Is Google replacing or eliminating our ability to read the value of a website (as they see it)

Google's "Trust Rank" algorithm has been around for awhile, but I dont believe fully implemented. Maybe we're seeing the change from Pagerank to TrustRank.

Aaron Wall recently write an article, TrustRank & the Company You Keep (http://www.search-marketing.info/newsletter/articles/trustrank-company.htm) - basically the Googles "Trust Rank" algorithm places a different value on each incoming and outgoing link different then Page Rank. These values could be positive or negative.

So, are we seeing the end of PageRank as we know it? It seems so. It also seems we are all may to have to change out link development strategies somewhat.


Guess you were wrong. For now anyway.

Joey, you changed the title :(

It's back baby!

Visible Pagerank is Back on the toolbar! :)
also here on the philippines.