Why is DMOZ so important?

Since the DMOZ database is used my so many mirror sites and as a source for Meta Search engine results it is more important than many other directories.

This is why reform must take place before more webmasters get mad about the treatment they get (lack of communication on submissions is the main problem).

Vertical directories that specialized portals produce are in fact very important to those segments they serve, there is no doubt about that fact.

With so many new internet directories being produced everyday, I think this will make DMOZ even more important since there is so much duplication and more coming everyday.

It makes one wonder if Google and the other engines will start treating all reciprocal link directories as link farms and take them and the folks linked within out of the indexes.

I don't think reciprocal links per se will ever be devalued, since they would be expected to occur even with organic linking.

I do think that Google already has the technology to devalue non-relevant links... for all we know, they may already be applying that technology.

And, as I have said so many times people must be sick of hearing it, I would applaud a move to devalue all those DMOZ clones and a Google decision to drop their own DMOZ feed.

Search engines can surely identify directories and the sites that link back to them (link farms) and boot them out of the index, this does not mean that all reciprocal links will be penalized so on that point I certainly agree with you Minstrel.

So folks that submit to every directory under the Sun will have a good surprise in store for them one day I think.

Google has used DMOZ as a component for listing sites in the SERP's since day one, how much of a factor it is seems to be a mystery to most of us though.

Maybe that is why so many folks get so upset when they can't get a DMOZ listing.

PS: No one is tired of your comments Minstrel, in fact a couple of our threads have made the headlines of late as you know, since they (so called DMOZ bashing threads) are being discussed on well known forums.

I see famous people. :wave:

I've heard a rumor somewhere that all DMOZ mirrors have already been devalued. Can't confirm or disprove that point of view though - too hard to test. My own site has a dmoz entry, but it doesn't change much, as it the site is still young and only partially out of sandbox. When the site is younger than a year, nothing helps :(

I'm not a dmoz editor, but know some editors closely. They would be only happy if Google ever announced officially that exceptional importance of the DMOZ listing was a myth. It would stop all spam submissions they have to struggle through, all blamings, bashing and all the talk of DMOZ editors being corrupt. Because people would consider DMOZ just another directory.

Where did you hear that rumor?

I would love it to be true... the problem is that there are hundreds of myths and unfounded rumors being discussed in forums and most of them are of no value at all.

At ihelpyouservices forums if I'm not much mistaken :)

Oh. I mean no offense to you, Irony, or anyone else but I'm not sure I'd consider that to be the most credible source.

That said, I do believe (as those who have read my posts ad nauseum on the subject know) that it is only a matter of time until Google dumpd DMOZ and devalues the mirror sites...

I'm not sure I'd consider that to be the most credible source.


Tastes differ :)

I believe it was an opinion of one of the members. But well... if one day it becomes true - how will you check it beyond any doubt? There are so many factors involved in the algo, and they are being changed every day... every hour... every minute.

If the rankings of one of the sites you monitor have suddenly dropped - how eill ou know it;s due to DMOZ mirrors being devalued, not something else?

No way IMHO.

Google is a mystery, but I do know this, that they will drop a lot of sites that have reciprocal links going into directories (link farms).

That I would bet is already happening. So submitting to every directory out there might be a real bad solution to getting links.

But that's easy to avoid Anthony :)

Just don't submit to any directory that requires a reciprocal link ;) And certainly no connections with link farms... erm... kinda obvious.

It is ironic Irony that so many webmasters submit to these directories.....

This means that folks that do not submit to these directories gain advantage by doing nothing over those who do submit to these "so called directories" (link farms/data gathering scams). :wave:

PS: We all know that some of these directories simply sell e-mail addresses from those who submit to them and there are a lot of suckers that give away this information and it does them no good at all.

Just don't submit to any directory that requires a reciprocal link
That's my policy too...

Not because I believe that Google devalues reciprocal links -- that's just nonsense. But because any directory that demands a reciprocal link isn't worth it.

Yes Minstrel, but exchange links with the 'wrong" sites and it could also hurt you real bad :eek:

What if you exchanged links with William C......Do you think that could hurt :confused:

exchange links with the 'wrong" sites and it could also hurt you real bad
I won't argue with that...

I think the idea of going out and buying links is silly, I have number 1 SERP positions in many keywords and I have NEVER purchased or done one link trade with anyone. :eek:

So all this crap about having or needing many thousands of links is exactly that, CRAP :)

PS: None of my #1's came from having a DMOZ listing either because none of my sites are in the directory, so maybe DMOZ is not that important anyway.

I would say it is more important to Google SERP's versus any of the other engines.

That's my policy too...

Not because I believe that Google devalues reciprocal links -- that's just nonsense. But because any directory that demands a reciprocal link isn't worth it.
And the ones that demand a home page link are even worse!

I like it here :) You rock guys/gals! Think I'll become a regular :)

Anthony, agree 100%. Yes, sites CAN get to the TOP 1 without a DMOZ listing; on the other hand, there are many sites that have a listing, and still struggle to make their way to the top - and cannot. Too many factors involved.

It would be only logical for Google to devalue the links from DMOZ mirrors, wouldn't it? Since they get copied from DMOZ automatically, they can't be considered true votes for sites, can they? That's why I believe it's a bit more than a myth. My usual approach: when a statement can't be verified via a strict test, I use logic and common sense to verify it.

Concerning thousands of links as such. I know this strategy is no longer working for very tough terms (casino-related and such). Sites that used to enjoy top positions for such terms due to aggressive link campaigns, are now being dropped. I saw examples. I agree with David that reciprocal links as such aren't much devalued (still work for me), but it's oh so true that this method is becoming more and more dangerous than before. The reason being that the amounts of spam have grown tremendously, and out of 20 or 30 sites you review for possible niche link exchange, only one is usually worth it. Still there is no guarantee they don't employ somethng dirty like cloaking. I still exchange links sometimes, when the client can't afford paid directory submission; but I usually do only 20 to 30 exchanges (50 at maximum), and review the sites very thoroughly for spam. I also tend to do it very slowly and to avoid overloaded link pages that look more like link farms due to numerous exchanges. It works.

Content seems to be king again. Google produced the link mania, and now they are obviously trying to undo the harm caused by it. Too many crap link schemes. Now they seem to analyze links for quality and relevancy and to use very sophisticated algos to determine it; they also seem to give new links a trial period (as well as it happens to new sites and new pages) to test how genuine they are. SEO is becoming a hard game, harder still because the clients still expect quick results from us.

We live in interesting times, don't we?

Think I'll become a regular
Judging from the posts I've read from you so far, Irony, I hope that you will. Good job!

Well we have some folks in "the community" that think that ANY link is a good link and that you can never get ENOUGH of those "good links" and they call themselves SEO experts. They feel if they can get 900,000 links more than the next guy that Google will put them ahead in the SERP's race when in fact that ocean of links could be holding their sites down and could get them banned from the index one day if a great percentage of those links are purchased, bartered for, or are reciprocal links from link farms and directories.

These same "folks" will sell links, trade links, buy links and submit to every directory they can find, this is what they call SEO, that is why I call them "so called SEO experts".

How smart are these "so called SEO's"?

Content is king and great SEO friendly code (web standards), just look at the results good forums get, I see many of them high in the SERP's without engaging in any "special SEO".

What do these things tell you about SEO :confused:

DMOZ was so important because Google placed so much emphasis upon it for their own rankings. It was no different for Yahoo directory placements. Any smart search engine knows that any site listed within those directories, is edited by a human, and off some value. The problem is, is that now, so many listings have changed hands, redirected who knows where, turned to spam, etc etc etc, and with little to no monitoring. that these directories are no longer off much value, nor likely given the same weight as once was.

It's like everything in the SEO industry, it evolves. It is nothing, someone makes it something, the world makes a big thing out of it, then it dies. Once dead, it then evolves slightly to something different... This is exactly how Google has been running things. The only thing Google does effectively, is make webmasters tap dance to their tune.

I would argue that your thing about reciprocal links is nonsense though Anthony. Reciprocal links are not any problem actually. It is when a site only has reciprocal links, and nothing else to substantiate its existence. Directories!!! Well, everyone here only has themselves to blame quite honestly, as everyone here talked them up, created a bubble, and the bubble bust, now everyone retorts against them... I call that, two faced. Directories have a purpose, its just that a bubble was created by us all here, and that led to directories being operated by nothing more than the quick get rich schemes, and not business savvy people who know how to run and manage a directory. Niche directories, whether reciprocal or not, have a purpose, as especially if the page your listed upon has high rankings for its keywords. I know I would want to be listed on them if that where the case. Problem is, is that people are lazy, and don't check things like that first. Directories are also a good source to get spidered and ensure your content is indexed quickly, as they are often near constantly crawled.

Is content king? I totally disagree actually. It is statements like that, which undo everything within that statement. It is the same statement that was made about links. Links are king, everybody go get links. Content is king, everybody go create lots of content. People are now creating it whether relevant or not. Again, the SERP's are full of spam content, too either entice people to click through onto adsense links, or get them to redirect to the main site.

Content is not king. Links are not king. Website validation is not king. All rubbish. It is a combination of factors that attribute to high rankings, nothing more, nothing less, and definately not one deciding factor.

I totally agree, you most certainly do not need lots of links to rank highly. I don't agree about the comments with paid links. Some sites need to buy links because of the sheer competitiveness of the terms, thus they need links from pages that are limiting outgoing links, have built inbound links to that page, have niche related content, etc etc etc. Again, webmasters confused the fact and blew it all out of proportion. Not every site needs to buy links, just a good idea for those that need high rankings quickly for competitive terms. In actual fact, many links can definately work against you. In my experience, quality definately ruled supreme over quantity every time. A handful of quality links can generally get most sites rankings highly, even up to around the 50,000 allintitle mark.

Great post Anthony, but did you read all of my posts in this thread?

I mentioned that reciprocal links could hurt if they are from link farms (directories) and that there are some honest reciprocals that would not hurt a sites rankings.

The search engines can identify those reciprocal links that originate from link farms (directories or link traders) and that can hurt rankings or get a site banned from the indexes.

When you say that putting up content just to put up content is no good, yes a lot of webmasters are guilty of this, but without content what chance does one have of getting ranked? I have had forum owners and developers beg me to post or create content for them so it must be very important.

Yes one can spam with content, I went to a site today that still had thousands of keywords in the footers of their pages.

I did not think folks were that stupid but they are still out there :confused: :wave:

I started a new thread the other day actually, which really outlines this content thing quite well. Running a directory, I literally reject hundreds of these each month... so that should give you an idea of just how bad the situation has become.

Just two examples I posted, when creating this new thread (http://seo.anthonyparsons.com/forum/thread660.html), as I was just getting sick of not telling people about some of the rubbish that exist / made just for rankings / adsense / redirect, etc.

http://www.volcomshop.com or http://www.use-your-equity.com

Sorry, I did read all your posts, just commented broadly, nothing against you Anthony. Nice name by the way....

It is crap such as these example above, that have evolved from webmasters, marketers, etc, telling everyone, CONTENT IS KING. It's exactly how, and still happening, that links got out of hand.

Anyway, back on point, DMOZ has its purpose. I say, submit, and forget. If you get in, ever, one day, maybe... then good stuff, if not, who cares, keep moving forward and forget about the hype surrounding it.

Do you ask for reciprocal links back to your directories Anthony :confused:

Is content king? I totally disagree actually. It is statements like that, which undo everything within that statement. It is the same statement that was made about links. Links are king, everybody go get links. Content is king, everybody go create lots of content. People are now creating it whether relevant or not. Again, the SERP's are full of spam content, too either entice people to click through onto adsense links, or get them to redirect to the main site.

Hi brother:wave: What are you talking about? Don't you know my opinion about spammy auto-generated rubbish? I don't call it "content". I call it spam and condemn it. Sorry, I should have clarified it in my post, I think :)

When I say "content is king", I don't mean that other factors should be neglected, either. But we all know: the engines exist to help people find... well... content. Without it, nothing else matters, unless it is a tool or a service of some sort (like overture keyword suggestion tool), and in this case link bombing might be a reasonable thing.

Small niche directories that require reciprocal links may be worth it, because they are focused. General directories - in some cases - may be worth it, as well. The problem is, it is much harder to identify spam when reviewing a directory than it is when looking at an ordinary site. It increases the risk of running into a bad neighborhood. With a lot of new directories that appeared on the Net recently - and some of them already successfully banned from Google and other engines - one should thread very carefully when doing submissions. Agreed?

Concerning DMOZ. Yes, submit and forget is the best approach. If the site gets a listing, fine. If not, it is not the end of the World. We were discussing the importance of numerous DMOZ mirrors, actually. Do you think they should all count as separate valuable links? I believe you don't think so ;) I think I read your posts about it somewhere... or am I mistaken?

We were discussing the importance of numerous DMOZ mirrors, actually. Do you think they should all count as separate valuable links?
Not at all.

No one really knows, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if Google is already discounting these DMOZ mirrors, or soon will....

Even if not, the hopeless morass that DMOZ has become makes it increasingly les useful to anyone, including those seeking backlinks, as time goes on... and it's only going to get worse.

If those seeking backlinks and nothing but backlinks leave DMOZ alone, the editors will bless that day, as I've already mentioned. They are very sick of numerous spam submissions from people who aren't interested in anything else but backlinks.

It took only 5 month for my site to get listed in DMOZ BTW. Quite long, but not really very long for DMOZ. When it happened, it didn't boost the rankings at all... sandbox effect, damn it. Some people wait for a year or two, then get listed. Some never get listed. So what? Other directories can be slow, as well. They also reject submissions quite often. That's their right to include ot not include whatever they please.

Irony, you have so many worthless new directories that want you to pay a submission fee or a listing fee that are nothing more than link selling sites.

Blue Find (Blue Fraud) came out selling based on PR and Google devalued their pages quickly, John Scott still seems to want to justify the money spent on those links by saying that those are permanent links and they are still valuable even if the pages have little or no PR.

So many of these directories are nothing more than link farms, some of them give you a free listing if you reciprocate and at the same time offer one way links if you pay the listing fee.

If that is not a link farm nothing is.

If those seeking backlinks and nothing but backlinks leave DMOZ alone, the editors will bless that day, as I've already mentioned. They are very sick of numerous spam submissions from people who aren't interested in anything else but backlinks.
And the irony of that is that if webmasters looking for backlinks ever lost interest in DMOZ, there would be no one left except DMOZ editors who cared about DMOZ at all. It's not like anyone uses DMOZ to actually find anything...

Irony, you have so many worthless new directories that want you to pay a submission fee or a listing fee that are nothing more than link selling sites.

Blue Find (Blue Fraud) came out selling based on PR and Google devalued their pages quickly, John Scott still seems to want to justify the money spent on those links by saying that those are permanent links and they are still valuable even if the pages have little or no PR.

If I continue saying "agree 100%", I'll soon be considered a flooder :D But I do agree 100% ;)

Especially about Blue Find.

But "so many" doesn't mean all IMHO. There are still some quality directories out there that do review sites thoroughly for quality and reject spam and worthless crap. And bring the sites they list direct relevant traffic. I think there is nothing wrong in linking to them even if it is not required. I'd say all the more so if it is not required.

But when I submit clients' sites, I usually avoid reciprocal directories.

It's not like anyone uses DMOZ to actually find anything...

I do get occasional visitors from dmoz... strange, isn't it?

Content is not king. Links are not king. Website validation is not king. All rubbish. It is a combination of factors that attribute to high rankings, nothing more, nothing less, and definately not one deciding factor.



Every so called SEO guy loses me there. I'm glad to see someone clarify them as all relative. :)

I do get occasional visitors from dmoz... strange, isn't it?
Editors probably... I don't recall EVER seeing a referral from DMOZ and I do have a site that's been listed since about 1998.

How can one find anything on DMOZ if the search function is broke as it has been for some time a while back. :confused: :wave:

PS: Did they ever fix it?

PSS: AOL should fire all the editors and take the database and convert it to a new search engine.

AOL should fire all the editors and take the database and convert it to a new search engine.
:D :D :D

One thing no one can ever take away from you, Anthony... you are consistent. :D

This makes business sense and AOL is under great pressure to create new profit centers.

Have you seen the news on them creating a new portal available to everyone.

They have and are investing millions in local search, they could take this database and convert it into their local search database and just close DMOZ down real easy and end the public relations disaster they have now.

As I've said before, Anthony, I don't have much faith in AOL but I hope you're right and I'm wrong on this one...

The DMOZ issue is getting plenty of press on every webmaster forum, that is for sure :)

It has many up in arms and ready to fight, no doubt, now we even have threads about the "so called DMOZ bashing threads" :D

Funny that we put up threads on how they can improve the service and they are called "bashing threads", I guess folks just want things to stay as they are forever.

It is really funny that folks lock threads on DMOZ because they fear that some editors might become upset.

We have always welcomed input from all editors and are open to any discussion from all quarters. :wave:

"Will you bite the hand that feeds?"

As I've stated before, to a corporation, this looks like they have a great thing. They do not see the problem. They have you guys on one side of your mouth talking you want in, and the ohter side saying it's a scam because you can't get in.

That raises the percieved value through the roof! It will only get worse!

It won't happen, but the only way for the DMOZ to change, is stop talking about it and stop subbmitting.

I gave up submitting Noppid, it is not worth going to a college course to learn how to submit a site to DMOZ. In addition you have no way of knowing if they even looked at your submission or even received it since they send no e-mail notice of any type.

With editors (snakes) like CBP out on the webmaster forum circuit stalking every DMOZ thread and taking notes on who is making comments daily, well they (these types of editiors) cast a dark cloud upon DMOZ. That guy is a real loser and these are the types of editors that they must get rid of.

There are some editors that I really like, but if I find one who is bias like CBP I will let everyone know about it.

He is a terrible moderator, a horrible forum member and has to be a editor of little value also.

I dunno - I submit sites - sometimes they are included, sometimes they arent... I just submit and move on. Its not worth worrying about.

Hi brother What are you talking about? Don't you know my opinion about spammy auto-generated rubbish? I don't call it "content". I call it spam and condemn it. Sorry, I should have clarified it in my post, I think.

Sweetness, I know your opinion, but everyone else doesn't, hence where the problems come from. People just read what they want, and take what they want to believe. You could give anyone here two choices, and they will always take the choice they believe in. Two choices is a yes or no. Give them three choices, most will take the fence. I think we all need to be very cautious on what we say nowadays, as it is these forums that influence all the browsers. For the handful off active posters, there are heaps of browsers, just taking in what they want too. I think every person who ever says anything about what you need for rankings, really needs to start clarifying themselves each and every time now, to help stop that confusion.

As Noppid just said, "the only way for the DMOZ to change, is stop talking about it and stop subbmitting". That is the only way.

The only way in which we will ever get webmasters on the right track, is either say it once and then reference it EVERY other time it needs to be said, or we need to write the full content again and again, stating every little in and out of the topic, so there is no more confusion, and we stop people going and getting every link they can, we stop creating a craze of everyone opening a type of site because its the current trend, we stop people creating sites just for the sake of content, etc etc. We won't stop it, but it will sure put a large dent in it.

As for spam directories, I know how many there are as I list them all at http://www.directorylist.org. I know how much crap they are, but I'm not bias to that for that site. I am for my own directory, and as Irony stated earlier, some have very strict editorial policies, mine being one of those. http://www.webxperience.org is another new directory, free submission, and very strict editorial policy. Mine will be going free in about four months also. Having a link from any of these spam directories isn't really going to affect you honestly, providing you have links from other sources also. Having links only from bad neighbourhoods, yer sure, bad juju, though as long as your site isn't weighted down with only those type of links, it shouldn't make any difference. If it where the case, then we would all go out and submit our competitors sites to these spam directories to take them down.

I have tried this for an experiment, and it didn't work.

Well if these directories have e-mail verification how would one be able to submit someone else's site without their approval Anthony?

Sounds kind of crazy to me to attempt such a thing, sort of like clicking on someone's ads to get them banned from ADSENSE :D :wave:

Do you ask for reciprocal links back to your directories Anthony :confused:

My anthonyparsons.com directory has a partner link... not to me, a paid partner, who has paid to be there. It keeps things one way, but requires a link to review the site.

What people don't understand, nor most of these crash web directories who merely opened to extort a few bucks and leave, is that reviewing a website correctly can take 10 minutes. If an editor can get 60 sites reviewed daily, they are on a good wicket. I remember Bruce from WOW directory saying his editors average about 60 per day. I do about the same.

If you have a free directory, then your going to be making money from somewhere, whether that be paid ads, or paid express submission, it must make money to stay in business. Because of the directory boom, most people have forgotten that credible directories are an actual business, and they must make money to remain in business.

The use of third party advertising is considered a big no no by many engines, example, placing PPC sponsored results or the like from an applicable engine at the top of all your pages. If you sell ad space, you get told your selling pagerank. If you place adsense on all your pages, you get told your just out for some extra cash, and blah blah blah.

I, like some others, actually run full time directories as a business, which means the directories are not just there to make some money, they are a business, which means they also advertise, are marketed, etc etc, as a business model. It is merely the directory boom that has foiled that for us all, as everyone just views all directories as worthless. That is nonsense.

Well if these directories have e-mail verification how would one be able to submit someone else's site without their approval Anthony?

Sounds kind of crazy to me to attempt such a thing, sort of like clicking on someone's ads to get them banned from ADSENSE :D :wave:

Not everyone with a website uses their domain as an email. What about all these businesses that use gmail, yahoo, msn mail and so forth. People don't just use those services for personal use, but business and main email accounts. If a directory didn't allow inclusion because of a certain type of email account, then you would lose many possible quality listings.

It has been done, even I did it, and found out the hard way, it doesn't work.

It is not that all directories are worthless Anthony, there are some very valuable directories that are part of portals published by trade magazines that specialize in a particular industry.

All of these Internet directories are in most cases not worth much, if reciprocal link directories are classified as "link farms" by the engines then they do more damage than good for those who submit and link to them.

I think quality of sites within General Internet directories will determine the winners in the end. In addition folks actually have to use them to find things and that will also separate the winners from the losers in the end.

If folks are starting directories in a vain attempt to make some ADSENSE money good luck to them, they will not be around very long.

Sweetness, I know your opinion, but everyone else doesn't, hence where the problems come from. People just read what they want, and take what they want to believe. You could give anyone here two choices, and they will always take the choice they believe in. Two choices is a yes or no. Give them three choices, most will take the fence. I think we all need to be very cautious on what we say nowadays, as it is these forums that influence all the browsers. For the handful off active posters, there are heaps of browsers, just taking in what they want too. I think every person who ever says anything about what you need for rankings, really needs to start clarifying themselves each and every time now, to help stop that confusion.
First, referring to Irony as "Sweetness' is more than a little sexist and condescending, don't you think? Second, what the hell are you trying to say in this paragraph?

As Noppid just said, "the only way for the DMOZ to change, is stop talking about it and stop subbmitting". That is the only way.
As much as I respect noppid highly, I completely disagree with him on this issue, just as previously I vehemently disagreed with sitetutor, who I don't respect highly at all. One result of the conistent negative publicity various people have applied in forum threads regarding DMOZ is that the Resourceless Zone has been virtually shut down. Do you really think that would have happened if everyone had just shut up and let them do what they wished?

Then we have this:

The only way in which we will ever get webmasters on the right track, is either say it once and then reference it EVERY other time it needs to be said, or we need to write the full content again and again, stating every little in and out of the topic, so there is no more confusion, and we stop people going and getting every link they can, we stop creating a craze of everyone opening a type of site because its the current trend, we stop people creating sites just for the sake of content, etc etc. We won't stop it, but it will sure put a large dent in it.
Again, I'm unclear as to what exactly it is that you are trying to say here but it sounds like a direct contradiction of the previous paragraph. Are you now saying we should NOT shut up but should keep repeatedly delivering a consistent message about DMOZ so it is clear to other people what the problems are? If so, isn't that exactly what we and others are trying to do already?

I think he is saying that we on forum have to be more responsible for what we say, Anthony P. seems to think that since folks post a hell of a lot about links that webmasters are out of control on getting links.

Since everyone has a directory now he also feels that we are now going mad and all of us are submitting to every directory out there.

I guess he is saying that we who post on webmaster forums have to watch what we say, but I think the things I post are very clear.

I don't know about some of the others on the forum circuit though :o :wave:

Oh.

First, referring to Irony as "Sweetness' is more than a little sexist and condescending, don't you think?
David, it's all right. Anthony and I are long time good friends, and that's all he really means :) I don't mind it. Not at all.

LOL :D

Thank you Irony, too bad you meant Anthony P. :D :wave:

LOL once more - I hope we will become very good friends, too ;)

We already are, plus Minstrel actually likes you, that is rare that he likes someone, so count yourself lucky :)

He is looking out for you because he thinks you are a valuable member :o :wave:

So what? I'm still the damn red headed step child?

I think Minstrel likes you too Noppid :eek:

Lucky you :D :wave:

Basically, yes. Thanks for clarifying Anthony.

Forums are more influential than most realise, and what we post is what generally leads the remainder of the world into their frenzies. A novice reads here, looks at someone influential posting that content is king, and just reads that and takes it as, they need more content, regardless how they do it, they need it. So they scrape it, gather rubbish, use automated tools and so forth, then end up filtered / penalized because of it. Meanwhile though, they have told all their friends how to get more rankings, their friends have told their friends, and the story goes on.

What I am saying, is we should shutup about DMOZ, and let people work it out for themselves whether they want to submit or not, instead of influencing them that it is some god of all directories, as its not.

What I am also saying, is that we need to clarify every point made, or reference the one point, when talking about needing more content, more links, more this, more that, etc etc.

Basically, yes. Thanks for clarifying Anthony.

Forums are more influential than most realise, and what we post is what generally leads the remainder of the world into their frenzies. A novice reads here, looks at someone influential posting that content is king, and just reads that and takes it as, they need more content, regardless how they do it, they need it. So they scrape it, gather rubbish, use automated tools and so forth, then end up filtered / penalized because of it. Meanwhile though, they have told all their friends how to get more rankings, their friends have told their friends, and the story goes on.

What I am saying, is we should shutup about DMOZ, and let people work it out for themselves whether they want to submit or not, instead of influencing them that it is some god of all directories, as its not.

What I am also saying, is that we need to clarify every point made, or reference the one point, when talking about needing more content, more links, more this, more that, etc etc.


Right on point again. I don't agree with 100% of everyhting I've read by you, but this issue is spot on. Well, of course because I have the same position. :D

Now, that's two. How do we build on this responsibly without repeating the obvious?

Content is King is like all we need to live is oxygen. Sorry, there's so much more to it then that.

I'm pleased to have the contacts to learn how to capitaize on such thoughts. ;)

Well Anthony if we were to shut up it would make the forums mighty boring at the same time.

Today DMOZ is a hot subject on all the forums, so you may as well get use to the discussions, we now have threads on forums that are "anti DMOZ bashing threads" to counter the "so called DMOZ bashers" on the forum circuit.

Funny that when threads are put up on how to improve DMOZ folks call those "Bashing threads". I wonder why folks are so sensitive to the point where issues can't even be discussed on an open forum.

So not to discuss or not to talk about issues such as DMOZ will never happen Anthony and you know this :o

I would add what I told sitetutor -- you do it your way if you feel that's the best way to be effective -- I'll do it my way. I'm not asking anyone to follow me or even agree with me when it comes to DMOZ strategy -- do what you think is best.

I would add what I told sitetutor -- you do it your way if you feel that's the best way to be effective -- I'll do it my way. I'm not asking anyone to follow me or even agree with me when it comes to DMOZ strategy -- do what you think is best.

DISCLAIMER:

My agreeing with or disagreeing with any notion is not going to matter what you do.

However, it has been said I don't know when to shut up. Go figure!

Really guys, do you think that we are going to run and hide from issues :confused:

Now that is really funny :p :p :wave:

My inner adult always tells me when to shut up but over the years I have trained my inner child to completely ignore him... :D

These DMOZ threads have been the hottest group of threads in the last 3 months on the forum circuit and they will not stop.

DMOZ and it's reform or future direction is of great interest to the entire webmaster community.

As I mentioned in the opening post, with all the thousands of new directories coming out, I think it will become even more important as far as directory databases are concerned.

So to think that webmasters may just quit discussing DMOZ on forums is quite funny to me :p :o

PS: Remember the name of this forum is: DMOZ and other Directories :eek: :wave:

Yer, don't get me wrong Anthony, I'm not saying stop communicating, I'm just saying if you want a lul in the battle, then something must give... and forums being so influential, are a good point. Again, on some topics that have been bashed to death, maybe we all need to just reference them if the conversation comes up again? Here is my thoughts I posted on SEO Zip, in regards to some of that recent DMOZ activity, how to get into DMOZ (http://www.seozip.com/forums/thread463.html).

Funny that when threads are put up on how to improve DMOZ folks call those "Bashing threads". I wonder why folks are so sensitive to the point where issues can't even be discussed on an open forum.

Absolutely agree mate. You can't be more on the money. Honestly, people who jump up and down about criticism sh*t me to tears. Good or bad, take it like a grown up, otherwise go and play on the kiddies forums.

For a $100.00 you can get a listing in DMOZ, damn I wish I could find the editors, sounds like a good idea for a website. :wave:

Already been done... http://www.corruptdmozeditor.com/

Yes, but you can never have too much pressure on a flawed and corrupt organization like DMOZ...

Remember: The mass of negative publicity isn't aimed at DMOZ alone but also at Google -- the primary reason currently that anyone other than DMOZ editors gives a **** about that pathetic excuse for a directory any more.

Well they sure have the largest DMOZ mirror site Minstrel, the "Google Directory", DMOZ sure saved them a lot of time in the beginning and they never had to hire folks like Yahoo did to get a directory database going.

So as you bring up, Google is indirectly responsible for DMOZ being so important in the first place, but Google at the same time has used DMOZ since the start of their search engine.

Since this is one way to get into the Google databases folks have a right to be upset if there is in fact corruption at DMOZ or bias in the editor ranks.

Thus AOL should reform the DMOZ submission process and the only way to do this is to fire all humans and replace them with automation as I have called for many times.