Feudin'

This makes little sense to me:


:confused: What is a "regular link exchange" and how is it less beneficial? Are you referring to that "reciprocal link penalty" myth?


Quality content is important but not for the reasons you state. First, I have no idea what you mean by "REAL links": what are other links? Fake ones? Second, what does "being exoposed" (sic) mean? What is exposed and by whom?
I have little desire to argue this matter, but will say this much:

I have not mentioned penalties. I was referring to what is most effective. Link exchanges do help of course. But I would not count on them working the way they are doing now.
When I see this


“Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you’d feel comfortable explaining what you’ve done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, ’Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn’t exist?’”
on the Google webmaster page, I do pay attention to it. Many here praise the coop network and credit it for their rankings. I myself don't participate in it and doubt I ever will.
With "real links" I am referring to link exchanges that make sense. Not a Junction City, KS real estate site building a nationwide real estate directory in order to get incoming links. Those things are very obvious and I doubt that those will be very beneficial in the future.

We can argue this all we want, but the question is what the search engines will decide to do. And NO ONE knows what that may be. You can follow their pattern, read their patent, look at the changes they have made in the past and draw your own conclusion developing a strategy that you yourself feel most comfortable with.

There are many different reasons why sites rank. IMO the best thing to do is everything you can on every level.

Of course content is there for many reason, I didn't say that the right way. From my past experience the best SERP results have come from having good pages linked to directly from good content pages off of other sites. Many of those links were not orchestrated. Some website owner viewed my client's resources beneficial for adding it to his own site and did so in a natural way (placement of link, surrounding text, not many other outgoing links) Everything made sense. Linking to good content pages from your own site does benefit your rankings as well. You may not believe me, but from what I have seen and been told, it is better that a search engine spider does find a good resource site thru yours. Especially if you don't have a lot of content yourself. That IMO is part of the reason that good directory pages can rank so well for keyterms that their outgoing links are related to.


On another note: We have many forum fanatics here using signature links. Those do help and they are one way links. Whoever claims they don't must have his/her reason to do so, but I myself had a new page ranked once with nothing but 3 forum links and no other incoming ones. I would not conclude too fast what exactly the reasons are for your rankings, and I myself don't always know why my sites and my clients' sites rank. But I know that the safest thing to do is to do whatever you can to make your site usable, attractive, easy to navigate and "encourage" good web site owners to feature you on their sites as well as get them back for it.


Like I have said, I don't know what the search engines are doing, but I have found a strategy that I am comfortable with which gives me the results that I need. many lazy webmasters are out there who want a quick fix and have a no content site ranked. I am trying to do what will benefit me without having to worry whether the next algo change will ice me (which is what happened to a few clients of mine 2 years ago).


Then again, I might be wrong and the search engines will keep things the way that they are.
But they might not, and that is reason enough for me to pay attention to any warning sign I may see and act upon it by choosing the road less travelled.

Mike

I have not mentioned penalties. I was referring to what is most effective. Link exchanges do help of course. But I would not count on them working the way they are doing now.
What exactly is a "link exchange"? Again, it sounds as though you are worried about reciprocal links and if so you are worrying about nothing. Can you come right out and use the term "reciprocal link" if that is indeed what you mean? or else explain what you DO mean?

Many here praise the coop network and credit it for their rankings. I myself don't participate in it and doubt I ever will.
And yet those are one-way links effectively, are they not? And they work and quite well, do they not?

With "real links" I am referring to link exchanges that make sense. Not a Junction City, KS real estate site building a nationwide real estate directory in order to get incoming links. Those things are very obvious and I doubt that those will be very beneficial in the future.
Interesting example... if I'm not mistaken, you have a couple of forums and a directory yourself. Is that philanthropy? How are those links working for you so far?

There are many different reasons why sites rank. IMO the best thing to do is everything you can on every level.
Can't disagree with that, although it's hardly cutting edge advice.

Of course content is there for many reason, I didn't say that the right way. From my past experience the best SERP results have come from having good pages linked to directly from good content pages off of other sites. Many of those links were not orchestrated. Some website owner viewed my client's resources beneficial for adding it to his own site and did so in a natural way (placement of link, surrounding text, not many other outgoing links) Everything made sense. Linking to good content pages from your own site does benefit your rankings as well.
So you are arguing for only organic linking now? I do wish you'd just come out and say whatever it is you think you are trying to say... :confused: I wonder why you have all the sites you have crosslinking to one another if this is indeed what you are trying to argue.

You may not believe me, but from what I have seen and been told, it is better that a search engine spider does find a good resource site thru yours.
:confused: "Better"? You know, Toots, if you talk in terms sufficiently vague, you'll never be wrong but you'll also never be right.

On another note: We have many forum fanatics here using signature links.
But none so blatantly as you - I have to hand it to you: eight live links in your signature. I've never seen a more vivid example of blatant self-promotion and lack of social boundaries in my life.

But I know that the safest thing to do is to do whatever you can to make your site usable, attractive, easy to navigate and "encourage" good web site owners to feature you on their sites as well as get them back for it.
"Encourage" them to feature you on their sites? So we ARE talking bout non-reciprocal links? Or not?

Like I have said, I don't know what the search engines are doing, but I have found a strategy that I am comfortable with which gives me the results that I need. many lazy webmasters are out there who want a quick fix and have a no content site ranked. I am trying to do what will benefit me without having to worry whether the next algo change will ice me (which is what happened to a few clients of mine 2 years ago).

Then again, I might be wrong and the search engines will keep things the way that they are.
But they might not
The problem with this post, as with most, Toots, is that you end up flip-flopping around, either being so vague even you don't know what you're talking about or arguing both sides of the question unable to decide which side you want to wind up on (remember those DMOZ debates? I'm not sure you've been able to make up your mind even now about where you stand on that issue...).

that is reason enough for me to pay attention to any warning sign I may see and act upon it by choosing the road less travelled.
What the hell does this mean? :confused: Exactly what "road less travelled" are you taking, Toots? Forum spamming?

Minstrel, you have just misinterpreted everything I've said and done so intentionally. Like I said, I am not here to argue nor do I have time for it. You obviously cannot get enough of it.
Cheers.

LOL, I wasn't talking about you ;)

BTW, I agree that reciprocal links may be good (when they make sense for humans, not engines only). It's bad neighborhoods that hurt us, and also links collected for sheer PR boost.

Yet I practise a slightly different approach: just list good resources I come across, and if their owners wish to return the link, that's fine. If they don't, okay, it's fine with me, too :) If I don't like the site, I simply trash their link requests, no matter what their PR indicator shows.
I agree. Linking to good neighborhoods won't hurt. It should be done on a voluntary basis whether someone links back or not :)

Ya know, having a dynamic between a few folks is cool, power in numbers. I love it, I die by it.

However, we have to draw a line before it becomes a click. I don't want to see things go beyond debate into personal samantics.

ST has his ideas and can push a button as well as have one pushed.

Let's be a little less sharp edged and have a little more humorus dynamic then personal.

Oh BTW, I love you man! :wave:

Exactly, this is what we all want, the Ethical approach, I just wonder if that will ever happen on the forum circuit. :wave:

No, Toots, I haven't misinterpreted what you said. You haven't actually said anything specific enough to misinterpret.

One minute you appear to be arguing against reciprocal linking and the next you're in favor of it. Pretty much the same thing we saw in the DMOZ threads.

No, Toots, I haven't misinterpreted what you said. You haven't actually said anything specific enough to misinterpret.

One minute you appear to be arguing against reciprocal linking and the next you're in favor of it. Pretty much the same thing we saw in the DMOZ threads.
And that is exactly where your problem is, Minnie. Your inablitly to differenciate between what works and what doesn't. Recipricol linking is not bad, but in some instances it is. DMOZ is not good, but some editors are. Not everything is black and white, but apparently you don't have the ability to emotionally distance yourself from those issues enough to see both sides.


One must wonder why you are even here. I have no intention to convince you, I care less. Prove me wrong all you want, I don't care. But reading your posts (when I actually do), I don't ever see you do anything but trying to discredit someone or linking to an article.


You apparently come to forums to argue. I don't. I don't have time for it nor does it lead anywhere. You also show no class whatsoever. You try to discredit people by pointing out misspells or trying to read something into their posts that is not there.

I doubt that you display that sort of behavior amongst your colleages, so why do it here or any other forum you do on. Most people ignore your search engine related postings and maybe my mistake is that I don't.

I apologize to everyone reading this and being annoyed, but i don't appreciate being attacked for voicing an opinion.

More vague rhetoric but still no answers, Toots.

Well I moderated that right in to a peaceful moment or two. hehe

Carry on I guess. :eek:

TOOT this all started when you unjustly attacked Minstrel, not only on DP, but on other forums, don't think we did not see the threads.

Now we can take this to my new Underground forum here on VBW if you would like, but we can not destroy this thread, Noppid has already told us to be nice :rolleyes:

PS: See this thread for the future Underworld forum here on VBW

http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6598#post6598

Now lets take this crap to the above thread if we are going to hammer this crap out and not in Irony's thread.

Are we having fun yet? :wave:

It's a waste of time, guys! I'm done :)

Like I said, if we just are going to grind it out, lets take it out of this SEO thread :cool:

Like I said, if we just are going to grind it out, lets take it out of this SEO thread :cool:
It would be a waste of time. I think people come to forums to get info and make up their own minds on who to believe and not to.

It's a waste of time, guys! I'm done :)

Fine! :D

TOOT this all started when you unjustly attacked Minstrel, not only on DP, but on other forums, don't think we did not see the threads.

Let's not be so clicky here. You have your own perception obviously. I disagree. If you cannot speak your mind without being attacked, there is no need to even go on. You seem to be taking the side of certain people and then go against others for doing the same thing. If Minstrel puts his personal feelings above the well-being of this forum, then this is not my problem. I have come here to participate in this thread because I believe it has value. I think also Irony has a lot more to say that hasn't been said yet. I myself hate lowering myself to this level, but if you have someone instigate and then others back that person up, that is wrong. Why take anything into the underground? This should stay on topic. I haven't gotten it off-topic but would like to see it get back on.

OK then, I guess that you and Minstrel will never post in the same threads again or visit the same forums ever again, right TOOT :confused: :rolleyes:

It is not perception TOOT, I was right in the middle of the DMOZ issue when you turned postions, not Minstrel, then proceeded to attack him for holding his line.

You were at fault and just can not accept that, you then went out and attacked Minstrel and I warned you about it in the thread where Janeth was attacking Minstrel.

Now do you want to take this to the other thread to hammer it out or shall we continue to take this one way off topic?

I am sure since it is now so entertaining that Noppid might just split the damn thing off no matter if you like it or not.

OK then, I guess that you and Minstrel will never post in the same threads again or visit the same forums ever again, right TOOT :confused: :rolleyes:
I think you place way too much value on who says what to who.

No TOOT, you need to remember that what you say should be important instead of fabricating BS.

OK then, I guess that you and Minstrel will never post in the same threads again or visit the same forums ever again, right TOOT :confused: :rolleyes:

It is not perception TOOT, I was right in the middle of the DMOZ issue when you turned postions, not Minstrel, then proceeded to attack him for holding his line.

You were at fault and just can not accept that, you then went out and attacked Minstrel and I warned you about it in the thread where Janeth was attacking Minstrel.

Now do you want to take this to the other thread to hammer it out or shall we continue to take this one way off topic?

I am sure since it is now so entertaining that Noppid might just split the damn thing off no matter if you like it or not.
lol ... I've told you a long time ago "stop editing your posts after others respond". just kidding. I care less about Minstrel unless he has something good to say. I think you should be more objective rather than making up your mind so fast on who is at fault. I think it's rediculous and the fact that this continues is even worse. If you stand behind attacking people, intentionally misinterpreting them and whatever else good conduct should exclude, then be my guest. I myself have offered peace to Minstrel and he refused. Now what does that tell you?

No TOOT, you need to remember that what you say should be important instead of fabricating BS.
Please give an example, otherwise I need to assume you are backing Minstrel no matter what and that you really don't care what this thread or anything else is really about.

Well maybe he does not agree with your tactics, nor does he have much faith in your word after what you did TOOT, it is all in the record if you would like me to put a report together.

Well maybe he does not agree with your tactics, nor does he have much faith in your word after what you did TOOT, it is all in the record if you would like me to put a report together.
I would like to know what I did.

Well maybe he does not agree with your tactics, .
He does not have to nor does anyone else, but if you cannot discuss opinions fairly in a discussion forum, then what is the point. Like I said, it is a waste of time, because your mind is made up. It's a shame that this continues. Like I said, I care less, but from a forum moderator's and owner's standpoint I find this behaviour disgraceful.

I tell you what TOOT, this should be taken underground and the thread split off to the other thread or the new forum that Noppid will get going.

I guess since you did these things that you must not know what you are doing if you can't remember them.

I guess since you did these things that you must not know what you are doing if you can't remember them.
What did I do that nobody else did?

Anthony, I remember you preaching a lot about ganging up. Now practice it if you would.

You personally attacked Minstrel unjustly for debating in many threads after you changed your position on DMOZ editors and he stuck to his position.

You should have never attacked him for that, I know, you tried to make peace, but he has to accept that, you don't make that decision for him.

Looked like you and Janeth were ganging up TOOT, I never needed a gang, I have taken on entire forums by myself many times TOOT.

I don't need help to make points or to expose the truth man.

Well, let's see if Minstrel has something to say other than pointing out my misspells :)

You have a good night, if you are looking for this thread, I would think that it will be split off by tomorrow.

after you changed your position on DMOZ editors and he stuck to his position. .
I have changed my mind about some of them and felt like they didn't deserve to be attacked the way that they were while the guilty parties were not even participating. But then again, maybe I was wrong and they should get a taste of what the outside world is feeling about DMOZ's problems and issues.

You have a good night, if you are looking for this thread, I would think that it will be split off by tomorrow.
You, too! I hope this "issue" (if it even is one), will be resolved and we can all go back to discussing something productive such as whether reciprocal linking will be as beneficial in the future as it is today :)

OMG!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

You weren't idle here, as I can see.

Please guys... as it has nothing to do with my article at all... could a moderator split it all to another thread? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks :)

You're absolutely right, Irony - done. Your thread and your article deserves better.

As for you, Toots, I'll give you a bit of free advice:

1. Stop following Anthony (and to a lesser extent me) around from forum to forum adding in gratuitous posts to promote yourself and your sites - it's annoying and pathetic.

2. Do whatever you want but when you post bad SEO advice or advice that makes no sense, I will continue to comment on it... I'm not going to leave it there for others to think it's correct or that you know what you're talking about just to massage your ego. You do a good enough job of that yourself.