Sold over $5000 in pixels in first 3 weeks

Well, the results are in. In the first three weeks that I have been open, I have raked in over $5000 in pixel sales at MillionPennyHomepage.com. There are countless pixel sites that have sprung up all over the net. I wonder if this really is a fad or if it will stick around for awhile?

My latest creation could be a health hazard. Take a look if you likey...

Million Moving Pixels (http://www.MillionMovingPixels.com)

Interesting and more luck to you dude!

I have raked in over $5000 in pixel sales at MillionPennyHomepage.com. There are countless pixel sites that have sprung up all over the net. I wonder if this really is a fad or if it will stick around for awhile?
It will stick around for just long enough for all those people who fell for it to realize that with that number of links on a PR6 page the benefit to them for their link rapidly approaches zero.



(not to mention the page looks like hell... how long do you think it will be before Google starts to seriously devalue pages with over X number of outgoing links?)

It's a fad. These pixel sites are just image based link farms.

That's pretty much what I was thinking, GFC...

But a few people are making good money in the meantime. :D

But a few people are making good money in the meantime. :D

And I salute them:D

There really is a sucker born every minute.

Ok, for some stupid reason, I went to the site. I will never forgive myself. I guess it is the bloody car wreck theory. You know it will be repulsive, but you are still going to look when you drive by.

It's pretty damn hidjus, innit?

It's a fad. These pixel sites are just image based link farms.

the same could be said for every directory, and some forums, wouldn't you say ?


still loving this >>> :wave:

the same could be said for every directory, and some forums, wouldn't you say?
I wouldn't agree with that, no...

I wouldn't agree with that, no...

so directories are not like link farms?

full of links, and requesting a recip when you submit.... hmmmm

and yet you don't concur ?

1. directories actually do provide a service to visitors other than webmasters - while I don't use general purpose directories for this purpose, I do use niche directories sometimes because the good ones do have some kind of screening or evaluative component

2. not all directories require reciprocal links - I never submit to those that do and I don't use them to find things because to me (rightly or wrongly) that means that the screening factor isn't there - anyone with a recip link can be listed.

so if you take a directory and put all the listings...lets say, on the homepage instead of 3 layers deep,

it becomes a link farm?

Let's not play this game, okay?

There's a world of difference between a pixel page and even the worst of directories. We both know why pixel pages exist - they are selling links. And they're not even useful ways of doing that. Put simply: If you are the owner of a pixel page, your customers are fools and you are either a fool or a scam artist.

Let's not play this game, okay?

No game. No personal attack. Only serious debate.


There's a world of difference between a pixel page and even the worst of directories. We both know why pixel pages exist - they are selling links. And they're not even useful ways of doing that. Put simply: If you are the owner of a pixel page, your customers are fools and you are either a fool or a scam artist.

Some of the pixel pages i have seen certainly appear to be a waste of space, some have not sold a single link, so are pretty useless to any visitors, others are simply swapping links with every other pixel page, again..pretty useless.

However the value to webmasters is huge. If you were the only link on that empty page.....how much traffic do you think you would get?

how much of the pr would you get ? and as the page fill up, it attracts more visitors, and the pr will go down, but the traffic goes up. Its a win win situation, and a cheap one at that.
Every site should have some space put aside for pixels.

You're living in a fantasy world.

However the value to webmasters is huge. If you were the only link on that empty page.....how much traffic do you think you would get?
Probably none.

how much of the pr would you get ?
.85 * {pixelpagePR}

and as the page fill up, it attracts more visitors, and the pr will go down,
To .85 * {pixelpagePR}/{#outgoing links}, a value which rapidly approaches zero.

but the traffic goes up.
What traffic? Who follows links from a pixel page? Who even visits a pixel except misguided webmasters hoping for a PR boost?

Its a win win situation, and a cheap one at that.
No. It's a win situation only for the person selling the pixels. The person buying is getting nothing of value.

Every site should have some space put aside for pixels.
I disagree. And none of my sites will ever have a pixel page. It's a simple-minded scam. Period.

no point in debating it any further,
you seem aggressively defensive of your opinion.

I am more than satisfied with the advertising stats (traffic/revenue/ctr) I have in front of me, so not much point in degenerating the thread any further.

regards
James

the same could be said for every directory, and some forums, wouldn't you say ?

No I wouldn't.

Directories - yea, most of them are just glorified link farms. 95% of the ones started this past year won't be around 5 years from now, and probably would not exist today if it wasn't for Adsense.

Forums - they don't even slightly resemble a "link farm", and are far from being a fad. Forums, the good ones at least, provide a platform for interaction with your peers from around the world. They offer a place to learn, exchange ideas and in some cases just shoot the breeze with other people who share similiar interests. Forums are link farms or fads - nothing could further from the truth.

The primary difference is that under no circumstances do pixel pages offer anything of any value to anyone except the person who was just paid to host a pixel.

Average Joe surfer has no reason to visit a pixel page, ever. The only reason they are getting any traffic at this moment is because they were mentioned in the news. They are a fad.

Of course their are exceptions to every rule.

Thanks for your reply GuyFromChicago,
Directories - yea, most of them are just glorified link farms. 95% of the ones started this past year won't be around 5 years from now, and probably would not exist today if it wasn't for Adsense.
glad you mostly agree.


Forums - they don't even slightly resemble a "link farm", and are far from being a fad. Forums, the good ones at least, provide a platform for interaction with your peers from around the world. They offer a place to learn, exchange ideas and in some cases just shoot the breeze with other people who share similiar interests. Forums are link farms or fads - nothing could further from the truth.
I did only say SOME forums. There was no hidden agenda.
The information to be gained is huge, some forums are obviously great but they are popping up all over the place and people even pay to get posts on them. Webmasters use them to get links, along with directories...joe public only looks for info..... so it's half a link farm :p
It's a bit like blogs, all the webmasters want one for adsense and links and promoting themselves, then complain if they get content spam,, it's all so hypercritical.

Without shooting myself in the foot, i always think the forums that don't allow signature links are the best content. There's no motive other than interest to post.

Anyway, so i registered a forum yesterday, and a blog 3 weeks a go :wave: :D

Of course their are exceptions to every rule.
Absolutely.

I think the big difference, and point I was trying to make, is that forums/blogs/directories CAN provide value under the right circumstances. Pixel pages, under any circumstances I can think of, CAN'T provide any value except for to the person who just sold a pixel.

Pixel pages, under any circumstances I can think of, CAN'T provide any value except for to the person who just sold a pixel.
Exactly.

Did you see this interview with Matt Cutts (http://www.search-marketing.info/newsletter/articles/matt-cutts.htm)?

I have to give props to http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com/ though. The laptop I'm typing this on has 1.47M pixels, but it never occurred to me to sell the pixels for $1 apiece in blocks of 100. Of course, I hope that the people buying pixels don't assume that those pixels will flow PageRank.

Exactly.

Did you see this interview with Matt Cutts (http://www.search-marketing.info/newsletter/articles/matt-cutts.htm)?

Sure did:)

The guy who had the original pixel page is a great (or lucky) marketer. He'll cash out and I'm sure that was his goal.

Forums - they don't even slightly resemble a "link farm", and are far from being a fad. Forums, the good ones at least, provide a platform for interaction with your peers from around the world. They offer a place to learn, exchange ideas and in some cases just shoot the breeze with other people who share similiar interests. Forums are link farms or fads - nothing could further from the truth.

But forums are depositories of links. With everyone going around with a sig with a link to their forum, it's a huge "link farm" (so much so wise Admins make sure to use no-follow for links to keep the spammers at bay). Furthermore, the danger of advertizing on forums is the troll/spam/trash it can bring -- especially if they dislike your POV (yes, interaction is a good and bad thing).

The problem now is the cash factor. Folks aren't building communities for the communities' sake but a payout, yet they expect these communities to pay at their own expense. The results are Admins and web designers feeling like the returns aren't much -- members will grab freebies all they can, and a lot of times not even saying "thank you" for the effort (or they'll lurk but don't bother to post to help pay for the perks). So to make it worthwhile they keep adding more value addons to pay them. Both the Admin and the community then begin the slow decline of working against each other's interests. Members will ask, "We want this mod" and the Admin looks at the cost to have the mod installed and his return on ads and says, "I can't afford it, so it's not an option". The community so used to being served hand and foot, goes looking around the net and finds a forum that has the perk instead. The Admin now has a leaky forum and less and less incoming revenue stream all for not spoiling his community more.

Add all of the links to the ads and Google/Yahoo ones, and the forum is now polluted with outside traffic. The "community" is quiet as a mouse too (which isn't inviting to the visitors, who don't like dead forums).

It's a mess, and why there's few really successful forums online. The message and tips to optimize and get more traffic, wins up costing the very elements that will bring them the $$$ and KEPT traffic (not the fleeting, I SEE YOU traffic that doesn't bother to register, just lurk).

Chris

But forums are depositories of links. With everyone going around with a sig with a link to their forum, it's a huge "link farm" (so much so wise Admins make sure to use no-follow for links to keep the spammers at bay).
I think that's a bad idea. Sig links are a small "reward" or "thank you" for posting and helping to build and maintain the community. Spammers can be dealt with in lots of other ways without penalizing your regulars.

It maybe, but a forum becomes a vehicle of outgoing traffic, not incoming traffic.

It works well if you're on a site like WHT, where the site is for web hosts and their business. Sigs there serve the community and outgoing traffic will come back when new customers need help and info (each needs each other). But I'll give an example how it doesn't work well with this forum. This forum is designed for forum admin help, and covers many topics. Yet if someone has a site that's similiar (or talks about anything that remotely does with vB) you have a membership leak. Folks will goto other forums and it dilutes your posting base <-- critical content generators that keeps a community alive. You have the membership numbers, but little posting base as they're stretched out from Sitepoint to vB itself.

Links can be beneficial if it's tailored to bringing traffic back. It doesn't work well when it's outgoing traffic and the viewers post everywhere else -- because that link told them of XYZ, ABC and DEF sites.

Chris

1. Create a good forum, have confidence in what it offers, and folks will come back. I'm happy to have them post links to competition if they wish - I think my forum beats theirs and I think if people go and see for themselves they'll agree.

2. Live sig links encourage some people to post and helps to bring in new members.

3. If you think that by disabling signature links or live links in posts or using nofollow you are in any way going to stop people from finding other forums, you're living in a dream world. Most people post in more than one forum - that doesn't stop them from returning to this one or any other one. I am currently a regular in four forums and relatively frequent visitor to a few others.

1. Create a good forum, have confidence in what it offers, and folks will come back. I'm happy to have them post links to competition if they wish - I think my forum beats theirs and I think if people go and see for themselves they'll agree.

Confidence is fine, but you know in psychology it can become a problem too -- especially when it doesn't meet reality.

If all the link exchanges and self-promotion can only get 25 people on a forum, and only -- at best -- 5 posting, it's not meeting reality. Something is robbing the forum of content, and it's not the will of those 5 posters.

If the content is there, and the community is posting, but all of the link exchanges and SEO has only 25 sitting on the perch (the Who's Online box), and there's little new traffic but lurkers, yes, something isn't right.

Sharing is fine, but for small forums sharing causes them to DIE.

2. Live sig links encourage some people to post and helps to bring in new members.

At a lot less ratio, most wind up being lurkers. Lurkers are a potential base, but admins know they usually come and go (or just around if there's some flame fest). To get them to post takes an act of Congress, and a link to XYZ site isn't it! lol

3. If you think that by disabling signature links or live links in posts or using nofollow you are in any way going to stop people from finding other forums, you're living in a dream world. Most people post in more than one forum - that doesn't stop them from returning to this one or any other one. I am currently a regular in four forums and relatively frequent visitor to a few others.

The issue isn't stopping other folks from finding other forums (they'll do it anyway), it's keeping them here to post. Not having them leaked elsewhere.

The goal in good forum design is to bring them there and keep them there. Not give members (and lurkers) reasons to go away. And with lurkers, they often don't come back.

Outside links encourage flight, and controlling flight is what makes a forum have a community, or just a link site and no one posting but "Hi" with their sig. Not very attractive, huh?

Chris

I assume yoiu're referring to the PsychLinks forum. That's a forum where it is expected that many of the visitors, including return visitors, prefer anonymity. I still have an active base of regular posters and the number of registered members increases steadily at 2-12 a week. I'm not making a fortune from it but that was never the intent and I am getting a regular revenue now from AdSense.

Just basic psychology. ;) Something a good marketeer knows very, very, very well to be successful -- and crucial in any advertizing trade. One has to understand the human condition, and why humans act the way they do, to tailor a product/promotion/idea to the market. And also understand buying patterns, comfort levels, and even color preferences.

One thing I always get in an argument over with programmers is between "logic" and practice. All the logic in the world isn't going to get that visitor to click a registration button, or a buy button. Humans are rarely logical beings. But to programmers everything is logical, and site design must be too. In doing so, they kill potential new customers because they lacked knowing -- basic human psychology.

Chris
[And help from my kitty Gray-Gray, that has found out about the 2 tab saving feature] ;)

Chris you are an interesting poster, but when you talk about limiting links are you talking about no signature links and no live linking within threads:confused:

I don't think either will "keep" members on a forum, but would like to hear more about what you think on the subject!

Maybe this thread can be split off into a new one since we are getting off topic:o

I think if you like that model, you'll like WMW and SEOChat but just watch those two forums as they begin a fast slide down a slippery slope...

I think that forums without links are of much less value to the users and to the forum itself, think about all the traffic that comes in from webmasters that are linked to!

They see their referral logs and many times this is good, especially if it is an editor from C-Net who is trying to find out who is linking to their articles and they start linking to your stuff because they found a thread that is interesting!

I know that this has happened to my sites and I see traffic coming in from some very large companies all the time!

Chris you are an interesting poster, but when you talk about limiting links are you talking about no signature links and no live linking within threads:confused:

Both.

Let me explain this alittle further. On a large forum outgoing links aren't much of a problem, there's a built in base that won't go even if the forum literally blew up (they'll just start a new one with the same base), so links won't drive them away.

On smaller forums (especially ones starting out) outside links can do considerable damage as the base hasn't formed yet, and there's a danger that members can go off to possibly find greener pastures (and lurkers coming over just to follow links). Now for the linker it's a bonus, but for the forum owner starting out he's supplying an avenue to lose members. That's a deep blow. It makes it that much harder to keep his posting base (as they're off posting elsewhere, or sharing time <-- which you won't want for a forum startup, later on it's a plus, but not at the incubator stage).

Personally, I wouldn't allow quick links and links in sigs until a core group of posters have formed (your forum survival security blanket). When there's a stable posting core, then offer the outgoing links, as it can now have the benefit without eroding your posting base.

It's like building a home. You'll need a solid foundation. If it's holey, cracked and non existent (or oozes out), the house won't be built right if at all. Outside links in the concrete curing stage can fracture your forum foundation, making it very difficult to patch up the continuing cracks, holes and ooze caused by the concrete not curing right.

Have to keep the curing concrete in it's form, not let it seep out.

Chris

Looks like this thread will in fact get split off soon Chris, it is an interesting aspect of forum management for sure!

I would not allow live links to new members until they hit 25 or 50 posts, some forums have that pegged at 10 posts.

The reason I would not allow live links or signatures until this number of posts is made is because of spammers, I see guys come into website review forums just to get traffic for their sites like folks do when they post links on blogs!

I have also seen virus links planted on forums, so live links from fly by night members can be a real problem!

I think if members are made aware of your policy when they join these rules can help a forum in the long run!

On smaller forums (especially ones starting out) outside links can do considerable damage as the base hasn't formed yet, and there's a danger that members can go off to possibly find greener pastures (and lurkers coming over just to follow links). Now for the linker it's a bonus, but for the forum owner starting out he's supplying an avenue to lose members. That's a deep blow. It makes it that much harder to keep his posting base (as they're off posting elsewhere, or sharing time <-- which you won't want for a forum startup, later on it's a plus, but not at the incubator stage).

Personally, I wouldn't allow quick links and links in sigs until a core group of posters have formed (your forum survival security blanket). When there's a stable posting core, then offer the outgoing links, as it can now have the benefit without eroding your posting base.
I must say I disagree 100% with this view. I would suggest that for most forums starting off in this fashion would be shooting yourself in the foot.

When a forum is new, you need to ATTRACT members, not discourage them. If you start a new SEO forum, for example, and tell me I can't put a couple of my sites in my signature, I'd say there's a pretty good chance I will head to another forum where they don't have such a restriction - it's not like there aren't a lot of other choices.

Might be better to split it off, so folks can discuss this matter further (and also more about keeping a posting base). There's a lot of talk about everything else, but it seems how to keep that base thriving, and not leaking out isn't one of them.

Chris

I must say I disagree 100% with this view. I would suggest that for most forums starting off in this fashion would be shooting yourself in the foot.

When a forum is new, you need to ATTRACT members, not discourage them. If you start a new SEO forum, for example, and tell me I can't put a couple of my sites in my signature, I'd say there's a pretty good chance I will head to another forum where they don't have such a restriction - it's not like there aren't a lot of other choices.

There's no discouragement there. It's keeping the posting core at home, not away.

But see, you're interested in promoting your forum at the expense of that new SEO forum. If you're more interested in just promoting, you're unlikely to be a major contributor (i.e., a member of that posting core), as no doubt you're spread thin as it is as you want to get those links out.

A new forum needs a solid posting core for itself, because without it, it'll just exist, it won't thrive. If they're busy following all the sig links, they're not going to stay home. They'll be registrating elsewhere and spreading their time thin too.

Making those links not available until the core group as formed, you'll ensure your forum will survive every link thrown at it.

Chris

ditto, pixel pages provide no value and are in fact click farms. that people have paid money the first guy who came up with it, everyone who first comes up with something gets some money. 1 cent per capita = 1 million bucks and more.

however, never to the second.

so, quite frankly, i don't buy the 5k you say you made.

What traffic? Who follows links from a pixel page? Who even visits a pixel except misguided webmasters hoping for a PR boost?








Nicely put minstrel