More shake-ups at the org

another admin steps down and two are announced.

UPDATE- 6/16/06 (http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=118737)

Getting to be a regular thing this staff turn over.

Seems like out of the frying pan and into the fire for most that mod or admin there lately.

Perhaps they're just tired of running what amounts to a daycare. Every time they try to make a change, the kindergarten crowd starts throwing toys.

Brad, our Designer Administrator, has stepped down due to personal reasons.

Wow - Alot of personal stuff hitting the staff over at the org lately.....

It's a polite "catch all" phrase.

I'm sure there is a lot of politics involved and pressure from Jelsoft. The ones who end up being in charge after all this is over are the ones who are playing the political game the best I'd suspect.

Perhaps they're just tired of running what amounts to a daycare. Every time they try to make a change, the kindergarten crowd starts throwing toys.

*tosses my rattle at tgreer*

I'm sure there is a lot of politics involved and pressure from Jelsoft. The ones who end up being in charge after all this is over are the ones who are playing the political game the best I'd suspect.


Isnt that how it usually works?

Brad, our Designer Administrator, has stepped down due to personal reasons.

Wow - Alot of personal stuff hitting the staff over at the org lately.....

yeah, like they're personally tired of all the BS

I'm profoundly ambivalent. I don't really care who runs the shop, only that they run it well. Yes, I realize how subjective that is.

Did you catch the part about a town-hall thread regarding the private coder discussion forum? Finally!

Frankly I think it's becoming rather comical... if you get asked to be a mod over there, watch out, you'll be an admin within a few weeks.


I usually don't agree with Dean C, but I can't say he's wrong in this instance:

Member to administrator in just over 2 months. Why not just pick some monkeys out of the local zoo and have them run the place? It really shows the poor level that this site has gone to to see all three administrators and several staff leave within the space of a month.

Frankly I think it's becoming rather comical... if you get asked to be a mod over there, watch out, you'll be an admin within a few weeks.


I usually don't agree with Dean C, but I can't say he's wrong in this instance:


Member to administrator in just over 2 months. Why not just pick some monkeys out of the local zoo and have them run the place? It really shows the poor level that this site has gone to to see all three administrators and several staff leave within the space of a month.



DIdnt I say something about the Monkeys running the Zoo a few weeks ago? Thats copyright infringement....!

Have you seen amy's latest? http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1009073#112

I very nearly fell out of my chair.

I didn't disagree with a lot of what you said. The other parts that I did disagree with, I kept my mouth shut about http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/images/newsm/grin.gif I'm learning to behave. It's not easy, but I'm learning.

I don't have the same vision for this site that Tech does. My vision of what I want this site to be exists here - it's called the coder's forum. As long as that's here, I can tolerate most other things that I may not be thrilled about.

The main thing for me here is that there are people I like to talk to about vbulletin coding here. I also like socializing with my fellow vbulletin admins. That part is still here and never went away.

Yeah - I agree with you TGreer.

That statement I think embodies the problems at .org. There seems to be a lack of objective thinking - Whats Best for the site and for vBulletin? Whats best to enhance this site for the vBulletin customer - I dont see that kind of thinking expressed much over there. I think its a turf war and power struggle.

What I find most interesting, is that they cannot seem to manage their own forum, yet give advice to others :) They have no leadership as I see it. That is the problem. They need leadership that actually has a focus and strength to make it work. Then, if moderators cant get on board, remove their status.

Well, now we know why we can't stop the clique/club mentality. :/

Well, now we know why we can't stop the clique/club mentality. :/
I bet boofo could share some interesting insight ;)

Frankly I think it's becoming rather comical... if you get asked to be a mod over there, watch out, you'll be an admin within a few weeks. I'll look forward to my promotion in about August then :cool:

I'll look forward to my promotion in about August then :cool:

haha... don't be surprised!

Strictly speaking I'm not a Moderator, so I guess I may have to wait a little longer. :D

I'm to busy to moderate just in case they were gonna ask. :D

I'm to busy to moderate just in case they were gonna ask. :D

rofl..

I'm to busy to moderate just in case they were gonna ask. :D

They cant afford me....

You couldn't pay me to touch that one....

Did you catch the part about a town-hall thread regarding the private coder discussion forum? Finally!

If you can't see through the smokescreen on that one, you are blind. What you see posted is for the members benefit only. Nothing will ever come of it. And it gets you guys off the Staff's back. Politics, baby, that's all it is.

Strictly speaking I'm not a Moderator, so I guess I may have to wait a little longer. :D

Well, hang in there buddy. If they can add 1 idiot Admin (and I won't say which one) and Princeton you still have a shot. IM me if you want to hear the real kicker in all of this. ;)

If you can't see through the smokescreen on that one, you are blind. What you see posted is for the members benefit only. Nothing will ever come of it. And it gets you guys off the Staff's back. Politics, baby, that's all it is.

You're no doubt right, you know them better than I and have insider's experience. Still, when they post it, I'll give my one and only one reply, and then see what happens. Likely, nothing: I'll still get what I need from this site and vbhackers, and let the .org people continue to stew in their own juices.

NOW you're seeing the tunnel at the end of the light, sir. That is what the org has become, sad to say.

Yes it is, very sad. I really do hope that they surprise us all, and turn it around.

You'd have a much stronger chance of wishing for me to never spam again, I think. The results would be about the same.

lol..... now, now... you just never know...

The sad thing is, I do. ;)

ahha... ok... I'll take your word for it ;)

Guess where the "Town Hall" thread on the private coders discussion is... anyone? Go ahead, take a stab: in the private coders discussion forum. Hey, let's have a Town Hall meeting, but let's hide it from the Town. Of everything I've seen go wrong there, this takes the cake.

call me stupid... go ahead, I've been called worse.... but.... HOW can you have a town-hall thread, or ANY kind of discussion thread where EVERYONE is supposed to have a say, but hide it from most of the forum?

makes NO sense to me

Then I'm stupid, too. It's absolutely insane, and it's made me truly angry.

It's a private forum, therefore it's members are being asked for thier views. While you are entitled to your views, you are just one person, not everyone shares your view. Shouting about it in multiple posts across multiple forums is not going to change anything and the main effect is simply to get the backs up of the people you are trying to influence. :cool:

It's a private forum, therefore it's members are being asked for thier views. While you are entitled to your views, you are just one person, not everyone shares your view. Shouting about it in multiple posts across multiple forums is not going to change anything and the main effect is simply to get the backs up of the people you are trying to influence. :cool:

You are so out of perspective as a mod and an insider coder you that it seems you can't comprehend that those insiders will want to stay inside and that the outsiders, who paid just as much to be at that open community, are being excluded from the discussion.

There is nothing fair about it at all.

I can make this whole argument moot and create hacks and style mods for release that do something but nothing of value just to get people inside. When that starts happening, and it will, your little clique will crumble. It will be a moderators nightmare when you tell a member his contribution was not worth while if you remove them.

It's either and open community or not. We all pay the same money to be there and should all have the same access.

It's a private forum, therefore it's members are being asked for thier views. While you are entitled to your views, you are just one person, not everyone shares your view. Shouting about it in multiple posts across multiple forums is not going to change anything and the main effect is simply to get the backs up of the people you are trying to influence. :cool:

Paul: yeah, never post when you're angry. Point well taken. I thought "The Geek's" reply in that private thread, while a clear personal attack against me in violation of the rules of that thread, was pretty funny and likely illustrates your point. He might have agreed with me, but was sick of hearing from me. Oh well.

Since the .org elected to make the vote about the future of the private coders discussion, well, private, and only among the elite/elected - it's obvious that the issue won't get a fair hearing there, so there really is no reason to post there anymore, on that topic or any other.

I defend posting here, as we've all "vented" in this thread.

I also defend posting at vbulletin.com, as ultimately Jelsoft is responsible for the mis-management at vbulletin.org, Marco's frantic back-pedaling notwithstanding.

Noppid, you don't pay anything to join vb.org. :confused:



You cannot play there in the open hack community unless you hold a license cross referenced at the .com site of Jelsoft. That makes it pay to play and part of the license. Jelsoft can claim they are disconnected all they want, but as long as you must have a license at the Jelsoft site, it's a Jelsoft site. I'm not here to debate legal logistics though.

My point is clear, we all pay the same to play there in the open community code forums. It is labled open and it's a big part of most license purchases. To exclude anyone with a license from any public part of it is just wrong.

ok that's just odd............ how did Paul and noppid's posts get switched around?


lol

We must have the "Paul M. gets the last word" hack installed. <runs, ducks>

Noppid, you don't pay anything to join vb.org. :confused:

If people are that desperate to join one extra private forum by releasing something that does "nothing of value" then good luck to them. I doubt the majority really care that much. :cool:

There are thousands of sites that give extra forums and benefits to members who have contributed things to their site, usually it's money that is contributed, in the case of vb.org its hacks or mods, but the effect is the same. I completely fail to see why anyone should get so upset over a common practice. :)

Noppid, you don't pay anything to join vb.org. :confused:

If people are that desperate to join one extra private forum by releasing something that does "nothing of value" then good luck to them. I doubt the majority really care that much. :cool:

There are thousands of sites that give extra forums and benefits to members who have contributed things to their site, usually it's money that is contributed, in the case of vb.org its hacks or mods, but the effect is the same. I completely fail to see why anyone should get so upset over a common practice. :)


I can tell you why it bothers me...

Im not a coder. If I wrote a hack, it would likely crash every vBulletin ever sold. I can write little things, but not full hacks.

SO really, I dont care what they talk about in that forum.

I just dont like being excluded. My impression is that it creates a line of differentiation between coders and non coders. A 'Class Distinction" so to speak.

What do they discuss in there? Is it 100% about coding? If not, them im being excluded from part of the community.

Ultimately, I dont know, and I dont really care, but I bet others have similar feelings.

Can I have access to your staff forums please, I don't like being excluded. :)

a staff forum is way different from a coders discussion forum Paul.
I'm not a coder and couldn't care less about that forum, but I do understand how these people feel and I do believe that they are right to feel as they do

Now, now... you realize of course the huge difference between a private staff forum, and a private coders forum, especially on a site that is ABOUT vBulletin coding.

Can I have access to your staff forums please, I don't like being excluded. :)

Don't try and spin this paul. I specifically posted that public forums should be visible, not staff stuff. But nice try. That's the reason the place is a mess. Unprofessional talk like that. It's clear you have the button and the rest is lip service.

That's what us license holders resent.

Now, now... you realize of course the huge difference between a private staff forum, and a private coders forum, especially on a site that is ABOUT vBulletin coding.There are (as you well know) already forums for discussion of coding so that is a non issue.

You seem to forget that the private forum was created at the request of coders, not because the staff felt like it one day. There was a demand for a Coders Forum, and that demand was (eventually) met. It wasn't even private when it was first created, but again, the users of it requested that it be changed. Why should it now be changed, if that is against the wishes of those it was created for in the first place ?

Why was it created? Why was there a demand? Why did this particular group of people take it upon themselves to request this? And then why did the staff cave to this? I've seen all of the reasons given, and none of them hold water. In any case, you can see a full explanation of my view in that private "Town Hall" thread, and either agree or not - it doesn't really matter.

What does matter, is that I don't wish this site to become another battleground, so I'll no longer respond to posts about this particular issue here. Vb.org decided they were going to handle the matter in... well, in the manner they did, so that's the end of it. Double-entendre intended.

Cave in ? Please try not to be so dramatic.

Still your right about one thing, yet more discussion of it here is clearly not going anywhere so I'll bow out as well.

The point, as far as I see it paul, is that, I really feel an us/them thing going on over there. Im not a coder, so im a 'them' -- and 'thems' arent allowed into certain things.

Perfect example, the put their first Town Hall into the coders forum, where "them" are not allowed. (Its since been moved to the public forums) - I guess the thoughts of "them" werent important.

It makes me feel like I am thought of as lower on the scale of things. That is the biggest problem in a nutshell. As long as the org is a place where the AmyKarr's can feel like the site is there mostly for them and their friends, nothing will improve.

Just a small correction. The thread was never moved. The version you see in Site Feedback is new. The townhall thread on private vs. public Coders Discussion is still within the private Coders Discussion. Per a PM exchange with one of the site administrators, it will remain there because the members of that particular forum have an "expectation of privacy".

Just a small correction. The thread was never moved. The version you see in Site Feedback is new. The townhall thread on private vs. public Coders Discussion is still within the private Coders Discussion. Per a PM exchange with one of the site administrators, it will remain there because the members of that particular forum have an "expectation of privacy".

I was told that too. But that is a joke. There are people in there that don't belong in there. That is a violation of my privacy as a "coder" with access.

Can these people have their "coder" status removed please? My privacy as a "coder" is being violated.

The more you and amy talk paul, the more you give us what we need to escalate this. We will have an even playing field.

I demand my privacy. Now go remove those members. I am being violated as we speak.

lol.. another of what I'd call a "drama thread" about the org.. whats that like 5 or 6 here ?...loooolz
maybe you should make a section just for .org drama ;)

I don't really have the time to read all these or the ones at .com and .org..

I just like to find the support and tips for the vb script, if a site was not enjoyable and informative to me, I'd leave.. until then I'll still visit the org.

it could be ran by a dozen shaved midgets as far as I care :D

that's fine hun... don't read it ;)

I'm not one to say I told you so, Thomas (but I did). ;)

I agree with Paul, though. If you guys want a forum of your own like the coders have, then you should bring it up to them like the coders did. Then you have some leeway.

I'm not one to say I told you so, Thomas (but I did). ;)

you did.... I heard you..