Zoints

I see a few vB forums are signing up with Zoints. I've created a profile at http://sarahk.zoints.com/ but suspect it's just a myspace wannabe. Am I wrong?

Is it working as a cross marketing tool?

What happens if you no longer want to be with them?

Sarah

I don't believe in using any free services to promote my sites. Think about it, myspace clone, myspace is nothing but kids. There is nothing there for me, my sites target adults.

But I guess for sites with that demographic, it could be ok.

Yahoo and MSN are still there, I don't see webmasters running to create profiles there and as you can be sure, those guys have a search engine that people may actully find you in. This new thing doesn't have that kind of clout behind it and Myspace already owns their target market.

I say it will fail in six months.

hmmm.. I dunno. But it looks like fun, so I joined :D. I see you, Sarah!

Are they accepting new sites yet?

I haven't messed with it enough to know. I just did a profile, that's it.

http://Ohiosweetheart.zoints.com/

I haven't messed with it enough to know. I just did a profile, that's it.





Same here - Its too complicated for me to bother with.

I don't believe in using any free services to promote my sites. Think about it, myspace clone, myspace is nothing but kids. There is nothing there for me, my sites target adults.


I say it will fail in six months.



I agree completely.

i don't plan on joining.

taz started promoting it last month and i didn't want to join then either :p

Same here - Its too complicated for me to bother with.

I agree completely.

well hey, at least we're members and get to watch it fail if it does lol

if your a member, your supporting it :p

if your a member, your supporting it :pNot necessarily, tyre kicking would be a more apt description.

If you're using it with your forum, then you definately are.

Oh, and I use lots of free tools to promote my sites - I never pay for directory listings for instance. DMOZ didn't cost me a cent.

I don't pay for directory listings either... primarily because I can't, but even if I could I wouldn't anyway. I just don't see the sense in it when there are so many free directories out there.

With the legal issues at myspace with pedophiles, we need another place for them to go after kids?

I wonder how long before federal regulation gets these services?

IF that is, indeed, what this turns into then I'll delete my membership. But I haven't spent enough time over there yet to look around real good. I just followed our fearless leader's example ;)

I think zoints is great, and takes the online community to the next level (insuring we dont get left behind)

The owner is also doing a great job in answering feedback and making improvements all the time. Its really easy to customize.

Once its out of beta i'll be adding my sites :)

How does a site that is not yours take your site to the next level? I know the ad says that, but it makes no sense. It's like having a chat program on a new forum and asking why no one posts.

I aint saying the whole service is bad, I'm saying your site is yours and another site someone else owns and gets you to put content on is not helping your forum. Especially when you consider that the folks going there are already forum owners. Not likely to have time to be members at everyone else's forum.

Spend your time getting back links, not populating free services with content.

I aint saying the whole service is bad, I'm saying your site is yours and another site someone else owns and gets you to put content on is not helping your forum. Especially when you consider that the folks going there are already forum owners. Not likely to have time to be members at everyone else's forum.I think the idea is that all your members become zoints members and will therefore be interested in some of the other forums. Going for a cross pollination effect.

Exactly, and we want to send our members elsewhere why?

This is not cross pollination, this is picking the flowers.

I understand members will find other places to go, but I don't want me, my site, or my staff sending them there.

Maybe I'm just selfish?

Hi everyone, disclaimer: I work for Zoints.

I was pointed to this thread and thought i'd drop in :)

I think the idea is that all your members become zoints members and will therefore be interested in some of the other forums. Going for a cross pollination effect.

We're not overly interested in a cross pollination effect. Will that happen a little? Yes. But that's not what will really benefit forum owners.

How did MySpace get so big so fast? People who were members referred their friends. And those people subsequently invited their friends. And then in turn those people had their friends join.

We're already seeing this happen. As of yesterday, 35.32% of people joining Zoints are NOT members of a community. Those people will in turn be driven to the forums that use Zoints based upon interest, following their friends, and other means. And every statistical model we have shows that percentage increasing significantly going forward. This tour (http://zoints.com/tour/forum-owners/) (still in draft form so pardon the mess) might shed some additional light on what we're trying to do.

Do we think every forum out there should install Zoints? Absolutely not, it is NOT the right solution for every forum. But we're working hard to empower those forum owners who feel the need to adapt to the changing technological and social landscape of the net. :)

Hi d. I didn't even know that Zoints was something that is installed. I thought is was another site along the same lines as MySpace.

geeze learn something new every day

Hi Ohiosweetheart :)

Hi d. I didn't even know that Zoints was something that is installed. I thought is was another site along the same lines as MySpace.

geeze learn something new every day

Forum owners install a very small piece of software (a single product for vbulletin 3.5.x) that allows them to tap into the Zoints system. It can be turned off anytime with a single click and is highly configurable. The software allows you to decide how you want people to get to their/others Zoints profiles via your forum.

ahha... I didn't know about this..

If your wondering why I havent jumped out in support of Zoints...

Its a few things.

Im not terribly excited about exchanging my members. I see my forum(s) getting very little in return, while Zoints becomes much larger - SO its kind of like free advertising for you, but more then that even; More power to you, but I dont give away advertising for free. A few additional members a day does not seem fair or in my benefit when I give you access to many thousands.

Im not terribly excited about adding code to my forum(s) that links to your server, or gives you access to my membership information. I havent looked at the plugin, so I dont know what it does, but I dont know that im interested in anything that changes my profile pages or prompts my members to join another site I dont control.

Im not terribly excited about yet another profile/networking site. And this one is even more intrusive then the others I've seen.

Im not terribly excited about your long standing relationship with TAZ (Join Date: 05-20-04) and TheSandman. This is more of a personal thing, but anything to do with TheSandman automatically makes me distrustful due to my many dealings with him over the last 3 years. (none of which are positive) That's all I will say about that.


Just to clarify: Hi everyone, disclaimer: I work for Zoints. - No, your the founder - not just someone who works for Zoints.

These are only my personal opinions. Maybe my opinions will change in the future. My mind is always open.

Hi Joey,

Thanks for the feedback :)

Im not terribly excited about exchanging my members. I see my forum(s) getting very little in return, while Zoints becomes much larger - SO its kind of like free advertising for you, but more then that even; More power to you, but I dont give away advertising for free. A few additional members a day does not seem fair or in my benefit when I give you access to many thousands.

Let's say 1,000 of your members signup for Zoints and create a profile.

1. If you were to use the forum branding system we provide to community owners, you now have 1,000 profiles on a fast growing social network that have your logo, links to your forum, forum colors, and other information you choose to add.

2. You now receive Google Adsense impressions on the profile pages of 1,000 people on a fast growing social network. If each of your 1,000 members refer 5 friends, all of a sudden you receive Adsense impressions on 6,000 profiles. As an example of the potential here, MySpace currently receives over 1.5 billion page views per day. This provides a new revenue stream and just as importantly, diversification for forum owners. After what happened with Big-Daddy, I think many of us can agree we need to diversify.

3. Let's say those 1,000 members are from a car forum. These people are naturally going to enter car related "interests" to their interests block. And as a car forum owner, you are naturally going to tag your forum with all kinds of car related tags. All of a sudden you have thousands and thousands of links on pages that looks like this: http://zoints.com/tour/forum-owners/5/. Not only are members of Zoints who share that interest going to check out your forum, but the search engines are already eating these pages up.

4. Your members are going to network with other Zoints members. This naturally increases the chances of either more word of mouth referrals or their network simply seeing the links to your forum on their pages and following them.


Im not terribly excited about adding code to my forum(s) that links to your server, or gives you access to my membership information. I havent looked at the plugin, so I dont know what it does, but I dont know that im interested in anything that changes my profile pages or prompts my members to join another site I dont control.

We in no way are given access to your membership information and our privacy policy can be seen here (http://zoints.com/privacy-policy.z). The software you install is highly configurable. You can set it so that it in no way changes your profile pages. I'm not sure what you define as "prompt your members" so I can't address that. If you would elaborate, i'd be happy to.

Im not terribly excited about yet another profile/networking site. And this one is even more intrusive then the others I've seen.

There's not much I can say about this one. :) We all have our opinions on social networking sites. We're trying to do things better than the others out there and at the same time benefit forum owners. We're (in my completely biased opinion ;) ) a pretty cool group of people who believe that online forums are the killer application of the Internet (http://david.zoints.com/blog/?cmd=viewentry&entryid=520) and honestly want to change things for the better (http://zoints.com/about.z?cmd=ten-principles). :)

Im not terribly excited about your long standing relationship with TAZ (Join Date: 05-20-04) and TheSandman. This is more of a personal thing, but anything to do with TheSandman automatically makes me distrustful due to my many dealings with him over the last 3 years. (none of which are positive) That's all I will say about that.

I don't know what your relationship with TheSandman is, nor is it my business. I can only base my decisions on my personal dealings with him which have been positive. It saddens me to see two big names in the forum industy such as yourselves divided. Regardless, you and I also have some history (http://www.vbwebmaster.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7093&postcount=22) and i'm a member on most good webmaster related sites :)


Just to clarify: - No, your the founder - not just someone who works for Zoints.

Indeed I am, but Zoints has progressed far beyond the dreams of one man. I'm no better than anyone who works for Zoints and the last thing I want is for any focus to be on me. Zoints is about online communities and bringing people back together, not some geek like me :)

These are only my personal opinions. Maybe my opinions will change in the future. My mind is always open.

I appreciate you sharing your opinions. We're VERY open to constructive criticism. Zoints is far from a perfect system right now, but we're working hard to improve it so that those who do choose to utilize it can benefit. :)

2. You now receive Google Adsense impressions on the profile pages of 1,000 people on a fast growing social network. If each of your 1,000 members refer 5 friends, all of a sudden you receive Adsense impressions on 6,000 profiles.This little piece of sales talk is something that always bugs me, it's like saying "if I pick the winning lottery numbers I'll be a millionaire". In reality it just does not happen, very few of those 1000 members will refer anyone, let alone 5 new people that are not already a member.

After what happened with Big-Daddy, I think many of us can agree we need to diversify.


I already have - and Big Daddy hasnt really hurt my revenue or my traffic much.

Besides - 1000 links from zoints wont help my serps a bit. Google catches on to those things pretty quick.

This little piece of sales talk is something that always bugs me, it's like saying "if I pick the winning lottery numbers I'll be a millionaire". In reality it just does not happen, very few of those 1000 members will refer anyone, let alone 5 new people that are not already a member.


I agree with you completely Paul...

Picking flowers.

In the end, the demographics and topics that are a result of the draw at places like myspace are just not of any use to me. I have no clue what an adult webmaster can garner from those demographics. Think about that mistress. ;) Myspace is already on a protect the kids crusade and will likely be legislated.

This little piece of sales talk is something that always bugs me, it's like saying "if I pick the winning lottery numbers I'll be a millionaire". In reality it just does not happen, very few of those 1000 members will refer anyone, let alone 5 new people that are not already a member.

In reality, who knows how many each member will refer, but you're guaranteed impressions on those 1,000 profiles. As time goes forward, that'll be an interesting statistic for us to track. Some people won't refer anyone. Other's are going to be social butterflies who seem to refer everyone, their friends, and their dog that died 6 years ago.

We make it quite easy for people to refer others. Their personal url username.zoints.com is also their referral url. We also have a contact list importation/email system they can use if they so desire. And we have a few other cool things planned. But yes, who knows how many those 1,000 people will refer. I apologize if it came across as sales talk, I was just trying to show an example of how the fact we provide impressions on the profiles pages of those people your members refer can be of benefit.

I already have - and Big Daddy hasnt really hurt my revenue or my traffic much.

It hammered me on one of my forums. It has luckily come back finally. I'm glad it didn't affect you though.

Besides - 1000 links from zoints wont help my serps a bit. Google catches on to those things pretty quick.

Indeed, I concur that all those links won't benefit you in the SERPs for Google (MSN is of course another story but i'm sure that won't last long either). But all those links will benefit you as people browse through Zoints and see who shares their interests.

In the end, the demographics and topics that are a result of the draw at places like myspace are just not of any use to me. I have no clue what an adult webmaster can garner from those demographics. Think about that mistress. ;) Myspace is already on a protect the kids crusade and will likely be legislated.

We're working hard to draw in a much more diverse demographic than MySpace. As we don't believe it is our job to determine what is right and wrong, we operate like Google. We have an adult area of our directory and filtering that members can choose to opt into if they want access to those communities that provide adult content.

Will MySpace be legislated? I guess only time will tell.

You are selling it like a pyramid scheme though. Worse, putting adsense revenue as a draw makes it sound like an ad clicking scheme.

You are selling it like a pyramid scheme though. Worse, putting adsense revenue as a draw makes it sound like an ad clicking scheme.

No, pyramid schemes, be definition, benefit those who are in first and harm those who get in last. Our system is designed to be fair. Those forums who have 1000 members signup SHOULD get more impressions/revenue than a forum who has 25 members signup.

Our forum owner TOS also states that they must abide by the Google Adsense policies. Revenue sharing is nothing new, a lot of well known sites on the Internet employ such systems. And word on the street is Google is even working on a revenue sharing API. We are doing everything in our power to make sure there aren't fraudulent clicks. That's why if you use our system, you'll notice that in "advanced editor mode" we don't show Google ads, just placeholder images. That's because we know that the ads would accidentally be clicked by members trying to drag and drop their blocks around.

I'm putting stuff on the table. I appreciate your replies.

Ah yes, math and statistics. I saw a wonderful quote about that today, I wish I could repeat it. But as you describe it, it seems like an attrition factor is involved. I just can't see pushing my members that way to achive that. It's fundamentally flawed from a business perspective IMO.

As for google, I find it very cool you are doing those things and have that plan in place. The adsense part of the sell though is like a carrot and seems off to me.

Again, I don't think the demographics suite me, so I'll pass, but I wish you luck. It's nice to see a direction someone can articulate.

I'm putting stuff on the table. I appreciate your replies.

Believe me, if the roles were reversed, i'd be doing the exact same thing. It really shook up one of our investors when he asked, "As a forum owner, would you install this system?" and I replied with, "No, at least not on my main forum day one." I let that sink in for a few minutes because I wanted him to know what to expect. THEN I explained why.

Zoints is a no name company. Who is Zoints? If a company like Google rolled out this system, I bet a lot more people would probably be willing to install it day one. But not some startup who people know next to nothing about. Now, people will soon find out that we are partnered with some very trusted entities in this industry which will help, but as a company, we still have to build trust. And trust only comes with time.

My main forum is my lifeline. It's what pays my bills. Heck, its what allowed me to fund Zoints until our first outside financing. I'm very conservative with it and would not join a system like Zoints unless I knew the people involved, formed a relationship with them, or over time the company showed me they could do what they claimed.

Luckily we've formed enough relationships and know enough forum owners in this industry that we have what is necessary to start us off. In our closed beta we're running right now, over 60 communities are taking part (including 4 Big-Boards). There will be early adopters that can see what we're trying to do who are going to install this day one when we open things up. Most people will take a little more of a wait and see attitude, and in my opinion, they should. Obviously we want people to install this day one (and are therefore making this system as easy to leave as possible: one click), but I would be a liar if I said I would if the roles were reversed.

But as you describe it, it seems like an attrition factor is involved. I just can't see pushing my members that way to achive that. It's fundamentally flawed from a business perspective IMO.

I'm not following you, sorry. What do you mean by there is an "attrition factor involved"?

As for google, I find it very cool you are doing those things and have that plan in place. The adsense part of the sell though is like a carrot and seems off to me.

Some people could care less about that aspect. For others, that has been a main selling point. Some forum owners are in the business for the money. Others are in it for a hobby. We want to empower forum owners in general, so we're presenting the facts of the system. I'd love feedback as to how we might better present this part of the system though :)

Again, I don't think the demographics suite me, so I'll pass, but I wish you luck. It's nice to see a direction someone can articulate.

Zoints definitely isn't for everyone. But I do appreciate the well wishes, thank you :)

(By the way, that anchor to the originating post in the quote is fantastic! I edited it out earlier because I didn't understand what it did. Is that a public hack?)

1) I'm not following you, sorry. What do you mean by there is an "attrition factor involved"?

2) Some people could care less about that aspect... Others are in it for a hobby...

3) (By the way, that anchor to the originating post in the quote is fantastic! I edited it out earlier because I didn't understand what it did. Is that a public hack?)

1) I mean it becomes the more I send "from" my site the better I can do.

2) Yes, exactly why I say it's not my demographic and compare it to myspace and all it's caveates.

3) That is vB 3.6 beta 3 stuff.

I see where you can succeed, there are many that will participate undoubtably.

1) I mean it becomes the more I send "from" my site the better I can do.

Ah. We want to make this system as fair as possible. Fact is, it is impossible to make it 100% fair. There are going to be a few small forums that only refer 10 people but those 10 people have a rolodex the size of football field so that forum owner will profit a lot. There are going to be small forums that might only send a few people but get back MANY more members in return because they are in some perfect niche. But all in all, I feel quite comfortable that the system we have devised is quite fair. And we'll of course be working to improve it over time.

3) That is vB 3.6 beta 3 stuff.

Ah, well kudos to vbulletin then :)

I see where you can succeed, there are many that will participate undoubtably.

Yeah, it's a pretty exciting time to be working for Zoints. :)

Well, I think ya got it thought out well. I look forward to hearing about how it goes. The market is ripe.

(By the way, that anchor to the originating post in the quote is fantastic! I edited it out earlier because I didn't understand what it did. Is that a public hack?)Just to answer this - it's a (new) standard feature of vb 3.6.

Im not terribly excited about your long standing relationship with TAZ (Join Date: 05-20-04) and TheSandman. This is more of a personal thing, but anything to do with TheSandman automatically makes me distrustful due to my many dealings with him over the last 3 years. (none of which are positive) That's all I will say about that.
.

Can't blame you there. That association in itself is enough to keep me and many away.

Well, try to point that out in the vB arena and you will be shut out. I think someone at Zoints may care though. But I've been wrong before.