The question was asked on vb.org if the paid hack, VBSEO, is worth the $149.00 cost.
IMO...
No, its not.
What your basically paying for is the mod-rewrite since most if not all of the other elements are available for free as a hack or something you can do yourself as a template edit easily.
VBSEO says their software:
Ok, now that said. What VBSEO basically does is change your URLs to more simple URLs without variables.vBSEO makes it easier for search engines to crawl more of your valuable vBulletin content faster and more often giving you higher keyword relevancy.
By installing vBSEO for your vBulletin forums you should expect to:
- Get more of your forum pages indexed in the major search engines
- Get your pages indexed faster
- Improve your keyword relevancy for all pages
- Prevent possible duplicate content penalties
The result of installing vBSEO you should expect is:
- Higher visitor to member conversion rate (i.e. gain more new members faster)
- Get visitors who are more highly targeted to the content you provide
- Increase the monthly revenues earned from your forums
- Improve your chances of achieving big-board.com status
A thread titled:
Probably a stupid question, but...
Ends up with a URL like this:
http://www.yourdomain.com/f2/probably-stupid-question-but-2429/
Instead of
http://www.yourdomain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2429
Now this does 2 things basically. It makes a URL with no variables and it adds keywords to the url. While it was once true that search engine spiders had a difficult time spidering URLs with multiple variables, this is no longer the case.
Here is proof. Take a look at Google's index of vBulletin.com pages HERE - vb.com has 2,750,000 pages indexed in google. Lets check vb.org HERE- 445,000 pages indexed - how about a few others? Digital Point - 567,000, TIVO Community - 1,340,000 pages indexed.
All of these have stock vb urls and are clearly indexed fine. So, we have now established that the mod rewrite isnt necessary to be indexed by Google.
SO that leaves us with the keywords in the URL.
Are they helpful in getting ranked? Short answer is yes. However, Google uses over 100 different factors in determining how a particular page ranks for a search query. Each Factor carries different level of importance. Oh, one more thing, Google changes these around pretty regularily, so what works well today may not work tomorrow. Point being, they might 'help' in getting your page ranked, but they are onlya small part of the equasion.
Let me explain something else. Being indexed means little if your pages dont rank well. The difference is this. Indexed means google maintains a listing of your page in its computers. Ranked Well means when someone searches for a phrase that is important to your site, your site appears in the first few pages in the listings. It takes alot more then just words in a url to get ranked well, unless its a very obscure phrase.
Here is what I think is a great example.
Search for the phrase vBulletin. That phrase is the most important phrase to someone trying to sell a vBulletin product. vBseo doesnt appear in the first 10 pages! vBulletin Webmaster appears 3rd after vBulletin.com and vBulletin Fans. None of those sites use a mod rewrite or have the keyword in the url.
It is my opinion that although its a help, its a minor help.
If you want to rank better, Here is what I suggest. First, spend half that money any buy Arron Walls SEO BOOK. Read it. Learn about Search Engines. What it takes is too long to go into here. Its best you read the book and learn about SEO.
Second, visit and become active in forums like Digital Point, vB Webmaster, and Webmaster World, ask questions, and learn about SEO.
Third, SEO is something you have to work for. There isnt a 'magic pill' you can install and instantly rank high. It takes time and effort. Its not a plugin. BUT, you CAN do it.
Oh, and to be completely forthright. I was offered free copies of VBSEO to review the product. I declined the offer. I also removed the VBSEO ad from my Google Adsense. Why? Because I honestly think its unecessary. I dont want to suggest or recommend somthing to VBW members that I dont believe in, at least to some extent.
Let me add one more thing. In a PM discussion here, vBSEO said this to me:
I have to say I agree with you %100 in the fact that mod_rewrite is not necessary to get pages indexed.
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ofcource it is not and it will never be ..
he made a very nice HACK but with the price and closed source code .. i dont think big webmaster going to west 1 min with it .. go look how people are very upset at vb.org and vb.com ..
the bad think is .. he use the beta user to ads his hack and lie to other people that they pay when they dont .. just trying to scam other user..
I dont think id be so harsh as to say scam - but in the end, I think it is misleading in my opinion. Nobody has offered me any proof that it works. Hell, vBseo offered me free copies of the hack to test - I declined. If I thought it worked, I would have jumped on the freebie.
I also havent asked them to donate a prize to the upcoming contest.
The reson i called it scam because there is vBSeo beta/Or Who get a free copy of vBSEO user at vb.org they dont pay for this product but lie to other people that they pay and say it is worth of $150 and going every where ads this product .. so what that called ? if it not scam ? it is just like try to fool other people and let them to payOriginally Posted by Joeychgo
YES he offer for me a free copy but later when i findout that the price is like this and also close source code .. i ignore it..
he do it for alot of other user ..but the idea is from the free copy is just ads his product that is the only point ..
Hi Joeychgo. I am not even sure that it is worth my while responding, you are well aware of my opinions, but here goes...
You encourage people to read up on SEO, but fail to realise that other people have also read those resources and so have got great ways of applying those principles to the vBulletin package. There are unfortunately still so many things that are wrong with the basic vBulletin package. But that is not to say that great forums cant rank well without vbseo - yours and the others you mention are great examples. With high Google PR, pages on the basic vBulletin package can and do rank well. vBulletin has also got the base package heaps better with the latest updates.
vBulletin still has lots of issues that vbseo fixes - next thread/previous thread, lastpost, newest post. It also has as default that the threads on the archive go directly through to the actual threads rather than the copy. I fought hard and got vbulletin to add the option to go straight to the threads, and they have that option there, but only an option and not the default setting.
vBSEO certainly has the rewrites, and these are not just to be sniffed at. The links are certainly lots more clickable when they include the thread titles. They in fact get the pages one point higher PR than string url's - not that PR means much, but its certainly part of the equation.
vBSEO is certainly not everything but it sorts out many issues, and provides tools to use for others. Onpage SEO and keyword selection is another major part of the equation that I help many clients with. Only this week I have worked with a client and together found a phrase for their forum with lots of traffic and not too much competition. Prior to my help, the onpage seo of the site was shocking - keyphrases were not being targeted. Now with the template changes I recommend, plus vBSEO, plus heaps of thought as to wording of the threads and forums... the client will be well on the way. But thats not all. Of course heaps of quality links are needed to then get the forum ranking, and time needed to get sandbox issues sorted.
With SEO everything needs to be right to be the best. You can be good with one or two things done well or half well, but to be best, you need to have everything right.
I always say to clients that have hundreds of thousands through their forum:
SEO is certainly not everything, you are personally doing so many things right - I am posting here because I saw this thread on an email, not because of coming through Google. Then there are the competitions... SEO is only one part of the mix, vBSEO is only one part of the mix. But why not be the best that you can be on the search engines as well. Yes, vbseo is certainly worth the $."If so many people like the forum, then how many more people would like it if only they knew about it because it ranked for every thread, and every forum etc"
I agree.
I agree.
I agree. Except that we have no way of knowing that PR goes up 1 point because of the mod rewrite. If you have some data on this I would love to see it.
I agree. But all that can be done without vbseo and saving the $150 - and SHOULD be done. Most people dont understand that, AT BEST, vBSEO is only a start and by no means the whole package needed to rank high in search engines. I argue that, the mod rewrite is unnecessary - and that the rest that the package does is available free via hacks or simple template mods.
What bothers me is that people are THINKING that the mod rewrite is the most important thing - and by far thats not the case. Its the icing on the cake if anything. Keyword selection and targeting, quality link building and such are all much more important factors.
For the guy with $150 to spend - is he better off buying VBSEO and knowing nothing about the other, more effective and important parts of seo, or is he better off spending half the money and buying Aaron Wall's book and learning how to do the other things? I can almost guarantee that with vBSEO alone - rankings wont change much, if at all. But, doing the other things and not doing vBSEO, rankings WILL increase.
Thank you. You and I disagee on some points, but we share the same opinions on others. The nature of the beast I suppose. Doesnt mean I dont have a level of respect for you.
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Only because I dont have a page specifically for that term! I happen to be above you for seo vbulletin, and search engine optimize vbulletin...Of course - im still above you in google for vbulletin seo (sorry - had to sneak that in)
You are certainly doing well.
I have seen people do wonderful jobs at getting vbseo, and applying the principles that I talk about on my forum. In fact, I prefer to try and teach people at the same time. It means that they are less likely to mess it up when they next update their pages. Personally, I get a mechanic to look after my car, even when I have changed the oil myself a few times. Personally, I got an SEO to help me when I first started.
With seo I consider that you have to in general do everything right all at once. What I find fascinating, is that I have even seo'ed an SEO forum that had thousands through it every day.
If a person did not have $149 - they should borrow it, and borrow a bit more to get me to work with them on the forum. It really is worth it.
Give a man a fish, and he will eat dinner tonight. Teach that man to fish, and he will eat for a lifetime...
Personally, I get a mechanic to look after my car, even when I have changed the oil myself a few times. Personally, I got an SEO to help me when I first started.
With seo I consider that you have to in general do everything right all at once. What I find fascinating, is that I have even seo'ed an SEO forum that had thousands through it every day.
If a person did not have $149 - they should borrow it, and borrow a bit more to get me to work with them on the forum. It really is worth it.
Or something like that
Actually, I would suggest they hire you long before I suggest vBSEO. If they cant afford you then they should learn a little about SEO first. There are plenty of resources. But given the choice of hiring you, (or me, or another professional) or installing vbseo - I would hire someone every time.
Someone had to explain to me how to set up my databse when I built my first vBulletin, I learned. I have sought the knowlege, and still seek to refine that knowlege further as I know you do.
The problem for me is, vBseo is promoted as an SEO solution. People believe that if they install vbseo they will make it to the top of the rankings, when what vBSEO does is a minor part of the SEO equasion at best. It take alot more to get ranked well then a mod rewrite.
Honestly, I would have ALOT easier time recommending vbseo if it was like $40 and didnt have the mod-rewrite, and was promoted as a convienant first step toward SEO.
I dont expect everyone to learn all the intricacies of SEO - but learn some of the basics. It will give you much better results.
Oh - and seo vbulletin, search engine optimize vbulletin, and vbulletin seo are all meaningless terms to worry about because they arent searched for. SO we're both spitting in the wind.
This is an important point. (I know you understand this but I should explain for everyone else)
What keyword phrases you rank for are important because some are rarely searched for. Does you no good to rank #1 for a phrase that nobody ever searches for.
To give you a little idea of what is searched for in relation to vBulletin -
vbulletin 149.0/day
daddo's vbulletin 84.0/day
vbulletin styles 38.0/day
vbulletin skins 28.0/day
vbulletin skin 25.0/day
vbulletin style 22.0/day
vbulletin templates 17.0/day
Ranking high for a phrase like SEO VBULLETIN does you no good. (however, vBwebmaster ranks #3 for the phrase vBulletin)
I use this tool at Digital Point: Keyword Suggestion Tool to find good keywords.
What you want to do is start with your main keyword. Lets say you have a Mustang forum. I might first use the keyword Ford Mustang and work from there looking for keywords that are not the hardest (which is usually the most searched for) and target for those.
Im going to stop here because this is getting off topic. Im going to put together a whole post on this topic.
You are totally on the right track. Keyphrase selection well deserves lots written about it.
I use the dp tool you mention all the time, and its a great way to get the creative juices flowing about a website.
If you advertise on Google, the stats on there are also a great way of getting even more accurate stats.
Short and sweet post given the thread title.
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