I agree that Pagerank is a poor way to judge the importance of a page. For example. Our Homepage is a PR 4. Our Forum Home is a PR 6. Individual pages such as Duplicate Content and vBulletin Forums and How to Remove - Powered by vBulletin in title tag are a PR 2,
The Archive is a PR 5, the same two threads, Duplicate Content and vBulletin Forums and How to Remove - Powered by vBulletin in title tag are a PR 3 in the archive. So the pagerank is higher in the archive and I havent done any outside linking to the archive.
However - that is just the issue of PageRank. The SERPS is what is most important, not the little green bar. I cant talk about the SERPS because Google isnt showing either to be cached right now. (I wish Google would straighten its index up - Yes, I think Google is still broken - and before anyone says anything I tried a handful of threads from vB.com too, same issue)
SO lets turn to Yahoo. If we search for Duplicate Content and vBulletin Forums on Yahoo (SOURCE) We see the first result is the main thread. www.vbulletin-faq.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80
Now lets look at Yahoo for "How to Remove - Powered by vBulletin in title tag" (Source)
In both cases, the Archive doesnt appear, the main threads do.
Last edited by Joeychgo; 10-28-2006 at 07:24 AM.
Originally Posted by smacklan
Incidentially - I currently show us ranking on Google as follows
vBulletin - Page 1
vbulletin skins - Page 1
vbulletin styles - Page 1
vbulletin hacks - Page 1
As we know - Google is volitile currently, and which datacenter you access will make things different.
http://www.vbseo.com/f28/how-remove-...e-titles-4677/ thread date 04-26-2006, 03:00 AM Pr 4
http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42 thread date 03-14-2006, 11:52 AM Pr 0
Same title as your thread
How to Remove - Powered by vBulletin in title
Strange still my theory is still better as same as FlorensAnd another strange thing Loco's new forum vBulletinsetup has again better rankings on search results. Thanks for pointing out that SERPS are again better with static urls as same as Pr's
Strange still my theory is still better as same as Florens
No - I didnt point that out. Dont put words in my mouth. I stated specifically that Google is quite screwy right now and I cant show things with confidence because of that.
Aside from that you cant just compare one site to another - there are other factors involved that ahve nothing to do with on page optimization such as inbound linking to name one.
BUT - if you go back and read Duplicate Content and vBulletin Forums you will also see that Google DOES NOT necessarily show the static url of the archive and instead shows the actual thread first.
One step at the time, please.
We need to find out first if static URL's are more welcome by search engines then the dynamic ones.
From Minstrel's posts (quotes), mines, Joeys, Lizard's: static is easier to be indexed then dynamic.
Do we agree all on that? If you don't, please explain why.
Thanks.
Uh, no - I dont. I never said I did.
I dont believe the dynamic URL (as a vb thread) makes any difference compared to onw that is static.
I have a background of 30 years in research. I know what an experiment is and I know very well what it isn't. Yours is no better than anectdotal observation.
As for proof and theory, I am not presenting a theory. I am presenting statements direct from Google combined with the observations of how Google and other search engines work by myself and others over the course of years.
No. I definitely did NOT say that. I said just the opposite - that search engines today index dynamic pages just as easily as static pages. I also posted direct quotes above to verify that fact from Google.
To make it easy for you, here they are again:
Google Facts & Fiction
Google and Dynamic PagesFiction: Sites are not included in Google's index if they use ASP (or some other non-html file-type.) <= i.e., dynamic pages
Fact: We're able to index most types of pages and files with very few exceptions. A sampling of the file extensions we're able to index includes: pdf, asp, jsp, html, shtml, xml, doc, xls, ppt, rtf, wks, lwp, wri, swf, cfm, and php.
Update to Google and dynamic pagesIf you decide to use dynamic pages (i.e., the URL contains a "?" character), be aware that not every search engine spider crawls dynamic pages as well as static pages. It helps to keep the parameters short and the number of them few.
Allow search bots to crawl your sites without session IDs or arguments that track their path through the site. These techniques are useful for tracking individual user behavior, but the access pattern of bots is entirely different. Using these techniques may result in incomplete indexing of your site, as bots may not be able to eliminate URLs that look different but actually point to the same page.
Don't use "&id=" as a parameter in your URLs, as we don't include these pages in our index.
As the web continues to change and evolve, our algorithms change right along with it. Recently, as a result of one of those algorithmic changes, we've modified our webmaster guidelines. Previously, these stated:
However, we've recently removed that technical guideline, and now index URLs that contain that parameter. So if your site uses a dynamic structure that generates it, don't worry about rewriting it -- we'll accept it just fine as is. Keep in mind, however, that dynamic URLs with a large number of parameters may be problematic for search engine crawlers in general, so rewriting dynamic URLs into user-friendly versions is always a good practice when that option is available to you. If you can, keeping the number of URL parameters to one or two may make it more likely that search engines will crawl your dynamic urls.Don't use "&id=" as a parameter in your URLs, as we don't include these pages in our index.
Sorry but you look pathetic because even in the quotes you posted google verifys that statis pages are way better then dynamic pages since dynamic pages can have more then one variable inside url. And yes in vBulletin threads can have more then one variable. Lets check pretty easy and count how many variable here http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/forum/s...?t=4828&page=5
And yes you are not presenting a theory because there is absolutly no way for you to present a theory since everything you think is wrong
Good luck with the way you are trying with your own way because everytime you'll be behing in Serps then me or any one who follows the advices we gave and use static pages
There is absolutely no reason to continue this debate since you can't comment on anything. I am really sorry for you misntrel and Jo i am way more sorry for you because you are following wrong people's advises and let your board stay behind your competitors.
I agree. You're living in an alternate reality where evidently facts and logic cannot exist.
Last edited by minstrel; 10-29-2006 at 06:26 AM.
This is the problem with this site,, staff thinks they know it all..I agree. You're living in an alternate reality where evidently facts and logic cannot exist.
I hear more negative comments about you guys just because of this.
1. Coming from you and knowing your reputation on other forums (like DigitalPoint), I take that as a compliment.
2. If you feel that way, why do you keep coming back here? Trust me - personally, I'd be happy if you went somewhere else - anywhere else.
Last edited by minstrel; 10-29-2006 at 08:26 PM.
Do you realize how funny you react
As you can see if you want to be acted yourself as you act other people it is pretty easy minstrel but instead of this i tried to show and explain my points to you because as i said we can never know the truth. We can just point out the proof by rankings , pr and etc... and expect you or Joe we all put facts on the table.
Joe , i seriously don't understand why you still trying to deny this fact. I know you are a hard working webmaster. You want to achieve couple things but with bad advices you are letting your site left behind. vBulletin can be indexed as the way it is noone is denying that but instead of leaving it as it you can work on it and optimize way better. There are couple stpes for this optimization. One of the most important things in this optimization steps is building a better url structure for your site and have keywords inside url's. It helps in both Page Rankings and SERPS . You can maybe try to say that it may have a small advantage but in all this huge vBulletin world even a small advantage can put you ahead against other forums and websites. Also Joe i hope you never forget that a moderator is really important for a forum in all ways. You shall never allow your moderators insult other people in any kind of serious discussion like this. It looks way unprofessional.
A few small points...
First, Brandon's new site isnt doing better. We are page 1 in Google for "vBulletin" as well as climbing in many other serps as we seem to be coming out of the sandbox - and even if it was true, I would simply be happy for him.
Second, All this rehetoric is unecessary. I ahve asked this many times. Show me evidence that Mod_rewrite makes a difference. Dont show me quotes of Google webmaster help pages, show me real proof. This is something nobody has done as of yet, despite my repeated requests. Certainly, vBseo has done studies to determine if their product works. Lets see that evidence. I have shown you many instances of where Google indexes vBulletin just fine without Mod_rewrite. I have shown you many instances of non Mod_rewrite forums ranking highly.
To date, despite repeated requests, nobody has shown me where a vBulletin forum with any Mod_rewrite installed, consistantly ranks higher or is indexed better then a vBulletin forum without mod_rewrite.
Thats what we're talking about here. Does having Mod_rewrite help a site get indexed and ranked better? I have seen no EVIDENCE of this. Sure, there are things that Google says that indicate static urls might be better, but there are other statements that suggest they are not. In fact, my understand from all the reading I have done is that as long as session IDs arent part of the equasion, Google treats the dynamic URLs the same as static ones.
So, I ask AGAIN... Please show me some EVIDENCE of improvements in SERPS and indexed pages, not your opinion or conjecture. I know your opinon, now I ask you to back it up.
Finally. Please dont come here and take such a condescending tone. It is quite unprofessional. The fact that I havent jumped down your throat because of it demonstrates my level of professionalism.
Also, Lizard King, I have tried to tell you this previously: You are FAR too focused on PageRank. Simple PR plays a role in Google ranking but not nearly as much as you appear to believe. Additionally, you are focusing way too much on PUBLIC PR, which is no longer an accurate measure of actual PR.
I Like Google's result better
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...n+in+title+tag
Yes Brandon
this oughta be interesting...
I rank great with the use of tips posted here.
I don't see any use in software that promises gold mountains.
Sure, the topic title in the url is nice but people look at the title first.
Currently i'm focussing on getting quality backlinks which are worth a lot more then buying some software and hope people will link to you (money is better spend that way).
So far, my latest VB forum is getting indexed pretty well on google, msn and yahoo and it's online for a month now.
If i get quality backlinks to it, it will get higher in the rankings as well.
One thing I noticed is how this illustrates Minstrel's statement that PR doesnt mean much.
You PR0 page on your PR0 site (no insult intended) is ranking higher then PR7 vbulletin.com, PR7 vBadvanced.com, PR7 photopost.com and even a thread on vBseo which is a PR4 for the thread itself. This is interesting especially because the vbulletin.com thread and the vBseo thread are directly on point.
SO, we can tell that PR means little in the algo, and the mod_rewrite means little as well since vBseo itself is outranked by your page. Once more - the vBSEO page that does come up on page 2 isnt really the best vbseo result. The best result would be [HOW-TO] Remove "Powered by vBulletin" from Your Page Titles -a PR4 page.
So - Lets analyze this...
Last edited by Joeychgo; 10-31-2006 at 08:26 AM.
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